Need Scope recommendation

[Brandi]

Looking for some recommendations for a scope to put on my new Grendel upper. The upper is a Loki Weapons with 18" barrel. Loki says they consistently shoot head sized targets at 850 yards. I doubt I'll be shooting that far but 600 yards maybe. Preferably something under $500.

[ricsmall]

i searched on midway ( easy to search and view) they are fast shippers, but their prices can sometimes be beat. I specified a price range of 300.00-500.00, maximum power from 17.5-24, and selected several brands. i can personally recommend bushnell,weaver grand slam, and leupold. these all have great glass, ive never broken one, and they all have no bs lifetime warranties. alot of people are using vortex but ive never used one so cant say. good luck!

[Bwild97]

Millett's are great scopes for their price! I own two!

Millett LRS-1 Scope

I Have a Horus Predator on my Grendel, but it is almost $800.00

Horus Vision Predator

[RangerRick]

You might want to go with a fixed focal length (no zoom) in that price range. You'll get better glass and windage and elevation adjustments that are decent, repeatable, and will withstand recoil.

When they cram more features in a low budget scope, corners have to be cut somewhere.

The Super Sniper is pretty good: http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-R...53712.aspx

It's $300 so you can then afford a decent mount like a LaRue that will be worth keeping if you step up on scopes later and still stay within your budget.

Be sure and get turrets that match the reticle, either both MOA or both MRAD, it will save a lot of calculations in the field.

RR

[LR1955]

Looking for some recommendations for a scope to put on my new Grendel upper. The upper is a Loki Weapons with 18" barrel. Loki says they consistently shoot head sized targets at 850 yards. I doubt I'll be shooting that far but 600 yards maybe. Preferably something under $500.

Brandi:

Wow, head shots at 850. I bet the other part of this was something like 'all day'. The farthest I have heard anyone openly bragg has been 600 but that was several years ago. I guess the distance gets farther as the years go by.

I have been fortunate from time to time to have someone make such a claim when I had a KD range available. I confronted them in front of those to whom they were lying and openly offered to draw a 6" by 8" oval on a six foot white KD target and allow them to prove it in front of all of us. In the past the distance has not gotten farther than 600 yards but even at 600 I offered them twenty sighting shots to get their zero and two or three hours to shoot forty consecutive shots inside that 6" by 8" oval. I figure if they could shoot forty consecutive shots inside that size target in a couple of hours, with a spotter, then they were right and I was wrong. If they missed, even one shot, they they were lying.

No takers. I wonder why?

LR1955

[ricsmall]

Brandi:

Wow, head shots at 850. I bet the other part of this was something like 'all day'. The farthest I have heard anyone openly bragg has been 600 but that was several years ago. I guess the distance gets farther as the years go by.

I have been fortunate from time to time to have someone make such a claim when I had a KD range available. I confronted them in front of those to whom they were lying and openly offered to draw a 6" by 8" oval on a six foot white KD target and allow them to prove it in front of all of us. In the past the distance has not gotten farther than 600 yards but even at 600 I offered them twenty sighting shots to get their zero and two or three hours to shoot forty consecutive shots inside that 6" by 8" oval. I figure if they could shoot forty consecutive shots inside that size target in a couple of hours, with a spotter, then they were right and I was wrong. If they missed, even one shot, they they were lying.

No takers. I wonder why?

LR1955

dang LR1955. If I ever have the privilege of meeting up with any of you guys, it looks like things could get fun (informal competition)! hope to be able to some day. georgia is a long way from nowhere, so its a long shot.(no pun intended)

I have seen the same thing and have seen it out to 700, 10 shots, but that was a trained USMC sniper with a heavy, heavy barrel .308 in near perfect conditions. I havent tried it yet, would be a great challenge with the best of equipment and conditions, for me anyway.

[davidj]

Maybe it is elephant's head sized targets ;-)

[Whelenon]

Looking for some recommendations for a scope to put on my new Grendel upper. The upper is a Loki Weapons with 18" barrel. Loki says they consistently shoot head sized targets at 850 yards. I doubt I'll be shooting that far but 600 yards maybe. Preferably something under $500.

Back to your scope question, what is your intended use? Long range bench, hunting, varmint? And, $500 does that include mounts?

I put a 2.5-10x44 Vortex Viper HS($320) and Larue LT158($175) on my Grendel. That's for deer hunting under 350yds and I'm very happy with it. To improve this set-up I would upgrade to the 2.5-10x44 Vortex Viper PST(around $600).

Now that just me, everyone has there own personal tastes, requirements, capabilities and budget. Good luck.

[Brandi]

LOL...the 850 yard claim is a bit high I admit but then I take all such claims with a grain of salt. No doubt they make a fine rifle, recent write-ups and reviews have regailed them for their amazing accuracy. I'm no sniper and I'm sure most accurate rifles are capable of far more than I can wring out of them. As for what the rifle will be used for...mostly bench shooting at long distances (out to 600 yards) (notice I said 'shooting' that far...not 'hitting' that far LOL) and hopefully some whitetail and hog hunting should the opportunity arise. My 5.56 will cover any shorter distance shooting.

[LR1955]

LOL...the 850 yard claim is a bit high I admit but then I take all such claims with a grain of salt. No doubt they make a fine rifle, recent write-ups and reviews have regailed them for their amazing accuracy. I'm no sniper and I'm sure most accurate rifles are capable of far more than I can wring out of them. As for what the rifle will be used for...mostly bench shooting at long distances (out to 600 yards) (notice I said 'shooting' that far...not 'hitting' that far LOL) and hopefully some whitetail and hog hunting should the opportunity arise. My 5.56 will cover any shorter distance shooting.

Brandi:

The best 'snipers' are guys who are consistently good, day in and day out, no matter the conditions. Consistently good means a hit in the upper torso of a human out to a resonable range under reasonable conditions. Very few push the system to get the resources to train. Maybe 1 in 100 will buy a rifle and practice and of that 1 percent, only one percent of them will follow a training plan to be better. I would caution you or anyone else to accept as an authority someone who bases their claims on being a military sniper in any branch of the service. I can't speak for LEA.

If you want to punch paper, get a Krieger barrel or something of the same quality. Shaw (AA) and LW are not the same quality. Do not get a brake or flash suppressor as all they will do is increase the potential of variance. Get a target crown on the barrel and leave it at that. Get a quality optic. For your intent, I would say get something that will give you up to about 24X. Thinner cross hairs will be better than thick, tactical ones, for your purpose. You don't need a ranging reticule so stick with a target dot or cross hair. If you do get a ranging reticule, ensure the elevation and windage are the same calibration as the reticule. Mils for mils, minutes for minutes. Needless to say, get target turrets that are easy to read from behind the rifle and ensure the focus is adjustable via a knob on the optic and not by adjusting the objective lens.

600 ought to be within anyone's potential providing your standards are a one minute target and you can stay on top of the wind.

Do well!

LR1955

[Brandi]

Not sure what you mean. Wasn't talking about snipers...just said "I'm no sniper" as a reference to me not being a skilled distance shooter. My Grendel upper is already on order, just looking for optics options for it. I do appreciate your information on scopes. So you would recommend a mildot style scope over a BDC? Keep in mind I have no training or experience shooting distance with a scope. I have a Nikon BDC scope on my M&P15-22 and a Trijicon ACOG on my AR15 but that's pretty much my experience thus far. Target turrents and adjustable focus will be on my must have list now so thanks for that also.

The upper is a Loki Weapons System build with an 18" SS barrel (I'll have to ask who makes the barrel), a nickel boron 'Fail Zero bcg, and A2 flash suppressor. It was the best combination of cost/quality I could find. As far as what it's capable of time will tell. Thanks again for the info. Do you have a recommendation for a specific scope manufacturer? I'm a big fan of Nikon and I've been told Vortex is putting out some great scopes.

[bwaites]

Not sure what you mean. Wasn't talking about snipers...just said "I'm no sniper" as a reference to me not being a skilled distance shooter. My Grendel upper is already on order, just looking for optics options for it. I do appreciate your information on scopes. So you would recommend a mildot style scope over a BDC? Keep in mind I have no training or experience shooting distance with a scope. I have a Nikon BDC scope on my M&P15-22 and a Trijicon ACOG on my AR15 but that's pretty much my experience thus far. Target turrents and adjustable focus will be on my must have list now so thanks for that also.

The upper is a Loki Weapons System build with an 18" SS barrel (I'll have to ask who makes the barrel), a nickel boron 'Fail Zero bcg, and A2 flash suppressor. It was the best combination of cost/quality I could find. As far as what it's capable of time will tell. Thanks again for the info. Do you have a recommendation for a specific scope manufacturer? I'm a big fan of Nikon and I've been told Vortex is putting out some great scopes.

Brandi,

LR1955 and LRRPF52 are "been there, done that" guys who are exceptionally pragmatic. They both are incredible instructors who have no real reason or time to deal with those who think that long range shots are some magical thing that only a chosen few can master. They believe that all of us can shoot well, but that the ability to read conditions separates out the exceptional guys from the rest of us.

Even more, they will express genuine disdain when someone talks about making 700 yard or 900 yard or 1000 yard hits all day. Those shots can be made, but even the best in the world will sometimes miss. No one has yet shot a perfect 20X score at 1000 yards, though some would have you think it is common. (If you aren't familiar with F Class, X is the bullesye ring, its 5" in diameter at 1000 yards. The 10 ring is 10" in diameter, with and so on, my last match with a Grendel at 1000 yards I had 5 X's, but had some 7's and 8's, too, and the winner had no X's!)

All that said, for what you are discussing, I would look at the Vortex PST line of scopes or the Nikon Monarch "X" lineup. I have the 2.5x10x44 Nikon Tactical, (which is what the "X" lineup used to be called) and I really like it, but I think the Vortex scopes match it for less money, with some features not available on the Nikon.

I haven't heard anything bad about the Vortex PST line, and thats from some pretty discriminating shooters.

Good luck with you rifle and shooting! Post some groups!

[LRRPF52]

Comparing the Nikon Tactical 2.5-10x44 with the Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x44 reveals that the Nikon glass and Vortex glass are in the same optical quality realm, while the Vortex has zero-stop and very positive clicks to the turrets. I like the Nikon floating Mil Dot reticle, but I also like the Vortex reticles that are either Mil or MOA hash, with matching turrets.

I just took both scopes out, to see how they compared in outdoor light, and it seemed like there was fisheye and a smaller exit pupil with the Nikon, while the Vortex is very forgiving on the exit pupil, and showed no perceptible signs of optical distortion. I get more of a tunneling effect when looking through the Nikon, while no such perception really exists with the Vortex for me.

The Viper PST Mil hash reticle seems to be finer as well, and it is a shorter scope. The Nikon has one feature that the 2.5-10x44 Vortex does not, which is side focus.

If I were faced with a purchasing decision between the two, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Vortex, since it has some very user-friendly optical interface with the shooter as to exit pupil, glas clarity, and the zero-stop feature, in addition to very secure, positive click values on the turrets, while being a more compact optic to boot.

[LR1955]

Not sure what you mean. Wasn't talking about snipers...just said "I'm no sniper" as a reference to me not being a skilled distance shooter. My Grendel upper is already on order, just looking for optics options for it. I do appreciate your information on scopes. So you would recommend a mildot style scope over a BDC? Keep in mind I have no training or experience shooting distance with a scope. I have a Nikon BDC scope on my M&P15-22 and a Trijicon ACOG on my AR15 but that's pretty much my experience thus far. Target turrents and adjustable focus will be on my must have list now so thanks for that also.

The upper is a Loki Weapons System build with an 18" SS barrel (I'll have to ask who makes the barrel), a nickel boron 'Fail Zero bcg, and A2 flash suppressor. It was the best combination of cost/quality I could find. As far as what it's capable of time will tell. Thanks again for the info. Do you have a recommendation for a specific scope manufacturer? I'm a big fan of Nikon and I've been told Vortex is putting out some great scopes.

Brandi:

The thing on snipers I wrote wasn't a hit on you. Just information that you can keep in your mind as you continue with your marksmanship training.

Loki has a great reputation and I am sure it will meet your needs.

LRRP52 is on top of the optics game. So is Bill. I settled on Nightforce optics because of the age old experiences of buying something cheaper only to find they didn't work well enough.

I would not go with a BDC for precison work. A plain old target turret with easy to read markings. I don't care for mil dot reticules even though I have had to use them for about twenty years now. I prefer lines over dots and prefer minutes over mils. The reason is because High Power programmed me to use minutes and to see in yards. So, lesson learned is to get a optic calibrated in terms of what you find easiest to use.

If I had to buy an optic today, I would ask Bill or LRRPF52 their advice.

I stand corrected. I would ask LRRPF52, Bill, and Bob Stokes.

Gene

LR1955

[stokesrj]

I kind of refrain from adding my advice to these topics because I too, like LR1955 long ago moved to Nightforce optics for shooting range use and prefer MOA hash marks to Mil Dots, which doesn't sit well with most of today's up and coming shooters.

I think that the Nightforce optics are on the higher side of mid priced, but give exceptional service with performance you can absolutely count on. The major drawback is that because they are rugged they are also heavy, I also use some higher end Leupold scopes, but only ones that have opposing spring turret systems. For hunting I prefer a second focal plane reticle and a power range of around 4.5-14X. I also prefer 1/3 MOA clicks for a very simple reason, I can get one revolution adjustment from 100-900 or more yards. 1/4 click restricts you to 500-600 yards. I also like lighter scopes for hunting, night force is mostly not light. One of the very best scope systems is a custom Leupold that puts these features together in a light, rugged, easy to use package for about $1,150. You can buy the same scope minus the custom features for about $850, but to me the additional features are worth the extra $300.
Here is a link to the scope I favor for general use, with a focus on hunting. http://greybullprecision.com/index.php?o...5&Itemid=5

[Jon A]

Preferably something under $500.

While I typically encourage people to spend more if they can afford it, the scope I'd get right now for your uses in that price range is this one: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/183567/...icle-matte . I've had three of the PST's and they're solid scopes--with this one they just eliminate a couple bells and whistles to keep the price down but it should be a solid scope.

If you can spend just a bit more, some of the highest quality scopes for the money are the Weaver Tacticals: http://swfa.com/Weaver-Tactical-Rifle-Scopes-C1815.aspx . Their 3-15 is now available with a nice reticle, matching .1 mil clicks and lots of elevation travel. The glass is much better than the 4-16 PST as well.

Up the price scale a bit more is the 6-24 PST--if doing mainly target work you may enjoy the magnification. Very nice scope.

Up just a bit more is the SWFA 5-20 HD which has the best glass and most durable build out of all of them. The non-illuminated one is actually on sale right now and is a heck of a value:

[Brandi]

Thanks guys...you've given me more useful info in one area than all the different sites I've searched on my own....now to make a decision. I really appreciate your help!

[Richard]

Sometimes I wonder if folks dont get their feet and yards mixed up!