stock weight - guidance requested

[tdbru]

Horde,
most of the ARs i see today are running some sort of collapsible buttstock assy. can anyone tell me if these are heavier or lighter than a GI M2 setup? i've not found much on weight comparisons between all the various buttstock setups. barrels, yes. handguards, yes, uppers and lowers and BCGs, yes. buffers and buffer weights, yes. but i haven't yet found much on the buttstock assemblies as far as a weight table comparing all the various offerings for weight. i haven't yet even found what the weight of the GI M2 buttstock setup is/was. Brigand Arms use to make a CF stock, but see lately they are not offering it anymore. does the Horde pick features over weight in general?
thx,
tdbru

[Zeneffect]

I live in California, this sounds like 1st world problems to me. (Not meaning to offend just making a light hearted joke)

[Wanderson]

Are we talking about a fixed A2 stock for a rifle length buffer?

If so, then yea, it’s quite a bit heavier than a collapsible M4 stock.

Now if you want a light A2 length stock that uses a rifle length buffer tube, an ACE A2 skeleton stock or a Hogue A2 length stock is pretty light, close to a std. M4 stock. I run both.

Not sure exactly what an M2 stock is...

But if you currently have an M4 stock it’s probably a carbine length buffer tube (also called a receiver extension). so upgrading to a fixed length A2 will require an A2 length buffer tube/receiver extension, A2 rifle buffer & rifle spring. Or get a spacer like the one Brownells sells that lets you run an M4 buffer & spring in an A2 tube.

[VASCAR2]

According to Midway USA, a AR Stoner 6 position collapsable stock weighs 16.3 ounces including the buffer tube, buffer spring and carbine buffer. A UTG A-2 style fixed stock like on a M16-A2 weighs 25 ounces. The length of pull is slightly longer on the A2 stock compared to the original M16-A1. The M-16-A2 length of pull is 13.5” and the A1 length of pull is 12.875”. I couldn’t find a listed weight for an A-1 butt stock assembly and not sure how much difference 5/8” (.625”) length would change the weight.


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1003275040?pid=550882

[tdbru]

yeah, brain fart. i meant A2 not M2. duh...
thanks for the suggestions on the ACE A2 and the Hogue A2. let me go look and see. i like the LOP on an A2. and i like running a rifle buffer & spring.
thanks guys,
-tdbru

[Old Bob]

A reproduction A1 buttstock with trap-door weighs 12.41oz; an original, glass filled G.I. issue A1 buttstock with trap-door weighs 20oz; an original A1 G.I. issue buttstock without the trap-door weighs 14.05oz. The A1 stock is my preferred stock on ARs. I have 3 rifles with A1 stocks...

[Inspector 12]

yeah, brain fart. i meant A2 not M2. duh...
thanks for the suggestions on the ACE A2 and the Hogue A2. let me go look and see. i like the LOP on an A2. and i like running a rifle buffer & spring.
thanks guys,
-tdbru

CDNN has some A2 Stock kits for $50 plus $10 flat rate shipping in stock as I'm writing this. I installed a couple of them for a friend recently, don't let the fact that they say Mossberg on them throw you. Pretty nice units overall. I will warn you though, if you spend too much time perusing the gun parts section that flat rate shipping box will have a couple hundred dollars worth of parts in it before you know it.

[biodsl]

The AR15.com Weights Database has a whole tab on weights of various stocks.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...=102399689

[SDW]

A reproduction A1 buttstock with trap-door weighs 12.41oz; an original, glass filled G.I. issue A1 buttstock with trap-door weighs 20oz; an original A1 G.I. issue buttstock without the trap-door weighs 14.05oz. The A1 stock is my preferred stock on ARs. I have 3 rifles with A1 stocks...

I agree. I have an A1 on my long-range Grendel. Bought a surplus one in decent condition; has the trapdoor as well. I do like the length for such a setup. Barrel is a 20" DMR profile anyway, so I'm not concerned about saving weight.

[Bigs28]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1.../htmlview#

Not sure if this is the same one already posted

[Oryx]

I have a couple of with Service rifles A2 Buttstocks but they are intentionally filled with Lead for extra weight. Also stuffed the hand guards full of lead and would keep the gun between 17-18 lbs.
Shooting a heavy gun (especially with .223) tames the recoil down to almost nothing and helped stabilize the rifle in all of the positions. Still pretty much favor a heavy rifle, but not that heavy any more.

[tdbru]

Oryx,
heavy is great for match or target shooting. not so much fun for hunting however.
you're exactly right.
-tdbru

[tdbru]

Horde,
i took my A2 buttstock off, along with the buffer tube spacer. 12 oz. i probably should have weighed that before i ordered the Hogue A2 but like i said.... brain fart. the Hogue overmolded A2 weighed 10oz on the same scale, though they're advertised at 11+ oz. so i saved 2 oz. not sure that investment was worth the weight savings but it is what it is now. one thing it did do, however, was to shift the balance back to neutral. on the repo A2 the heavier part of the buttstock was the rear area with the trap door and thick butt plate. the hogue A2 seemed lighter in the back end so more of the weight must be more evenly distributed. anyway the rifle didn't feel nearly as butt heavy, though the difference was only 2 oz overall. balance is now more neutral. neither butt heavy or muzzle heavy. feels like most of the weight is between the hands. i can live with that.

in spite of putting together what i thought was a pretty light weight upper, the rifle (20" faxon gunner barrel) with scope, scope mount, and sling but no mag tips the scales at 8 1/4 lbs. hmmm.. better than 12 lbs of course, for hunting on foot, but still not super light weight. i've seen some extreme makeovers on youtube for a 223 AR come in under 5 lbs. as a comparison point my 22" bbl howa mini in a B&C sporter stock with JO bottom metal, the same scope as on my AR hunting setup, plus rings and rail, and sling comes in under 7.5 lbs. barely but still under. and the scope and rings are wrapped in camo tape on the mini Howa. so the bolt gun comes in 3/4 lb lighter. without trying to shed weight at all, as compared to a weight conscious upper build, though still with a 20" tube. i think i've hit the inflection point on the curve of weight vs cost on the hunting AR build. i probably could get it lighter but the incremental cost to reduce weight another 3/4 lbs to match the mini howa build i have would likely be much more expensive than where i'm at right now. i'm pleased with the functional reliability of the AR Gr. so far, so if i think about dropping weight further on the hunting AR rig, I would also have to think about the effects on functional reliability that any proposed change would make I would think.

anyone else running a 20" hunting build for the 6.5Gr. on an AR platform? where are you at with optics and sling, regarding weight? i think i can deal with 8 1/4 lbs quite well for a hunting rig. of course 7.5 lbs is nicer on the carry part.

as another side note, my 20 Faxon Gunner seems to be a "faster" barrel than the 22" Howa mini version i have strange as that may sound. i don't think the chronograph is that biased, even though i might, be regarding barrel length. still they're quite close so not much difference in performance. which is nice.

thanks for all the feedback and best regards,
-tdbru

[Constitutionalist]

Horde,
i took my A2 buttstock off, along with the buffer tube spacer. 12 oz. i probably should have weighed that before i ordered the Hogue A2 but like i said.... brain fart. the Hogue overmolded A2 weighed 10oz on the same scale, though they're advertised at 11+ oz. so i saved 2 oz. not sure that investment was worth the weight savings but it is what it is now. one thing it did do, however, was to shift the balance back to neutral. on the repo A2 the heavier part of the buttstock was the rear area with the trap door and thick butt plate. the hogue A2 seemed lighter in the back end so more of the weight must be more evenly distributed. anyway the rifle didn't feel nearly as butt heavy, though the difference was only 2 oz overall. balance is now more neutral. neither butt heavy or muzzle heavy. feels like most of the weight is between the hands. i can live with that.

in spite of putting together what i thought was a pretty light weight upper, the rifle (20" faxon gunner barrel) with scope, scope mount, and sling but no mag tips the scales at 8 1/4 lbs. hmmm.. better than 12 lbs of course, for hunting on foot, but still not super light weight. i've seen some extreme makeovers on youtube for a 223 AR come in under 5 lbs. as a comparison point my 22" bbl howa mini in a B&C sporter stock with JO bottom metal, the same scope as on my AR hunting setup, plus rings and rail, and sling comes in under 7.5 lbs. barely but still under. and the scope and rings are wrapped in camo tape on the mini Howa. so the bolt gun comes in 3/4 lb lighter. without trying to shed weight at all, as compared to a weight conscious upper build, though still with a 20" tube. i think i've hit the inflection point on the curve of weight vs cost on the hunting AR build. i probably could get it lighter but the incremental cost to reduce weight another 3/4 lbs to match the mini howa build i have would likely be much more expensive than where i'm at right now. i'm pleased with the functional reliability of the AR Gr. so far, so if i think about dropping weight further on the hunting AR rig, I would also have to think about the effects on functional reliability that any proposed change would make I would think.

anyone else running a 20" hunting build for the 6.5Gr. on an AR platform? where are you at with optics and sling, regarding weight? i think i can deal with 8 1/4 lbs quite well for a hunting rig. of course 7.5 lbs is nicer on the carry part.

as another side note, my 20 Faxon Gunner seems to be a "faster" barrel than the 22" Howa mini version i have strange as that may sound. i don't think the chronograph is that biased, even though i might, be regarding barrel length. still they're quite close so not much difference in performance. which is nice.

thanks for all the feedback and best regards,
-tdbru

Mine are about the same- 20" barrels with scope, collapsible stock, etc. at about 8 to 8 1/4 lbs. I like my collapsible stocks for storage and use in tight blinds but, when hunting, mine are almost always fully extended with a clip on butt pad because the LOP is still too short for my arms. The only AR lower I have with a fixed stock has a single shot 50 BMG upper on it. I went to a fixed A2 style stock on that one because I lived in fear of the collapsible stock failing on recoil and my scope making it most of the way through my face. With a Grendel the few ounces difference either way won't matter as much as being able to make the rifle 4 or 5" shorter when you want to.

Just my $.02

John

[tdbru]

John,
i can see your point of view about the collapsible stock. makes sense. i assumed that a collapsible buttstock assy would be heavier on average than a fixed length butt stock.

ok, sounds like i am in the ball park as far as total weight goes. thanks for your report. since i don't have the opportunity to use a blind when hunting, the fixed length stock is not a big handicap.

i guess rather than worry over a few less ounces on the rifle, i should get my butt out there and hike more and get the ounces (lbs hopefully) off of me.
-tdbru

[Oryx]

You could also use the Magpul UBR stock ... provides one of the most solid extending stocks out there that will give you a compact position and also extend past an A2 LOP.
I have that on my Gendel right now and love it. Used it for a couple of years as on my service rifle when rules allowed it to replace the A2.