Which Primary Arms 3-18x50 ACSS reticle for grendel?

[GrendelFanatic]

I’m just now getting around to finishing my build. 20” group buy barrel and bolt. Anderson lightweight upper. I was originally going to put a 1-8 on it and make it my deer gun. I’ve made some new friends and they want to teach me long range shooting. The gunsmith in the group recommended a Primary Arms 4-14 or 3-18. Does the reticle matter between 6.5 creedmoor, 5.56 or 308? Will any of them even be close enough to work with the bullet ranges?

[Sinclair]

Have you even looked through a scope with an ACSS? I hate them, but many others like them. Do yourself a favor and at least hold up an ACSS reticule scope and have a look see.

To answer your question, it depends upon how critical you are. None of the ones mentioned are very close to the Grendel, at least to my concept of close enough. The Grendel starts off flat and begins a progressively and rapid decline somewhere beyond 600 to 800 yards, depending upon the bullet/mv combo. If you stay under 300 yards, I guess that the 5.56 or the .308 MIGHT be close enough for deer hunting. Some else will have a different answer, like I said, they are neither close enough for me.

[Lemonaid]

You can figure this out. First go to the manufacturers web site and go to where they explain the reticle subtensions. For example the Primary Arms SLx 3-18X50mm (this is a .308 - .223 version) it has 4.04 moa at 300 yards, 7.07 at 400 and 10.52 at 500 (there are more out to 1000 yards).
Next using a ballistic calculator put in your favorite load data. Hornady's work's fine https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/bal...lators/#!/
Now check how close the drop in moa is between the ballistic chart and the substension. Let's use a Sierra 120 pro hunter bullet at 2600 fps. (Calculated at sea level) at 300 yards it drops 5.3 moa, 400 9 moa and 500 it drop 13.3 moa.

[GrendelFanatic]

Have you even looked through a scope with an ACSS? I hate them, but many others like them. Do yourself a favor and at least hold up an ACSS reticule scope and have a look see.

To answer your question, it depends upon how critical you are. None of the ones mentioned are very close to the Grendel, at least to my concept of close enough. The Grendel starts off flat and begins a progressively and rapid decline somewhere beyond 600 to 800 yards, depending upon the bullet/mv combo. If you stay under 300 yards, I guess that the 5.56 or the .308 MIGHT be close enough for deer hunting. Some else will have a different answer, like I said, they are neither close enough for me.

I have much to learn about scopes, which is why I’m asking. What reticle do you like on your scopes?

[GrendelFanatic]

You can figure this out. First go to the manufacturers web site and go to where they explain the reticle subtensions. For example the Primary Arms SLx 3-18X50mm (this is a .308 - .223 version) it has 4.04 moa at 300 yards, 7.07 at 400 and 10.52 at 500 (there are more out to 1000 yards).
Next using a ballistic calculator put in your favorite load data. Hornady's work's fine https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/bal...lators/#!/
Now check how close the drop in moa is between the ballistic chart and the substension. Let's use a Sierra 120 pro hunter bullet at 2600 fps. (Calculated at sea level) at 300 yards it drops 5.3 moa, 400 9 moa and 500 it drop 13.3 moa.

Thanks! I’ll look into it.

[biodsl]

For their original 1-6 scope, PA recommends zeroing one inch high at 100 yards if using the military Mk 262 load of a 77 grain Matchking at 2700-2750 fps. Here's a chart attempting to match various Grendel loading to the Mk 262 ballistics.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16479[/ATTACH]

[VASCAR2]

The Primary Arms SLX 3-18x50 scope is new enough the owners manual is not available online. Generally the hold over marks on the scope will not line up exactly for your particular rifle, caliber and bullet choice. Many times it will be close enough to shoot steel but for me you need to decide what you mean by long range. If your talking about precision shooting at paper targets for smallest groups that means using the turrets.

If your trying to engage steel targets quickly at various distances is where the ACSS reticle has gained it’s popularity. A lot of the ranging reticles will give approximate distance for each reference point on the reticle for a specific 308/7.62x51 bullet like 147 grain FMJ or 175 grain BTHP.

With the scope user manual usually you can determine the number of mils which correspond to the numbers in distance, ie 2=200 meters, 3=300 meters and is so many mils from zero. Instead of dialing you put the corresponding reticle distance number on the target hold off for wind and send a round down range. With a spotter or seeing your bullet impact/vapor trail you can make corrections using the reticle.

The main advantage of the first focal plane scope is you can range using the reticle regardless of magnification setting selected. On second focal plane scopes the reticle always appears the same size and the ranging feature calibration is set for one level of magnification (Usually maximum magnification).

Generally the 6.5 Grendel flight path is closer with 308/7.62x51 than 5.56/223. Without knowing the specifications on the scope you can’t know for sure which scope will match a particular 6.5 Grendel load whether 123 grain ELD-M or 130 grain Federal GMM Berger ammo.

[drewthebrave]

If you really want to get into long range shooting, I would advise that you get a reticle that has evenly spaced hashmarks measured in MIL or MOA instead of a BDC (bullet drop compensating) reticle. Find out what your shooting buddies use (MIL or MOA) and get a scope with a reticle that matches theirs. Having a consistent unit of measurement really helps you spot your misses (1 MIL left, 0.5 MIL low) in a unit that everyone can use quickly & easily.

If you're not sure what to get, SWFA makes a good fixed magnification scope in either MIL or MOA with an easy to read crosshair that will serve you well no matter your skill level. It's a scope that will last a lifetime and then some, has very good glass, and will help you learn the basics on a budget without sacrificing quality. When you're ready to upgrade, you can keep this as a backup, put it on a hunting rifle, use it for a rimfire trainer, or sell it for a small loss (there's always someone looking to buy one of these).

[Sinclair]

I have much to learn about scopes, which is why I’m asking. What reticle do you like on your scopes?

I agree with drewthebrave. The scope on my CZ is the SWFA SS 10 x 42 with Mil Quad reticule. Simple, easy to do the math in my head, on the fly, and a bright, well made scope. They are the civilianized version of a Navy Contract rifle scope. Nobody knows why or for what the Navy is buying them, but it is good for us civies. The reticle appears to be an upside down German No. 4 With mil hash marks. The Army turned down a similar reticle during Viet Nam, but after several hours studying the reticle and as well as dry firing, I can effortlessly make elevation and windage adjustments with just the hash marks. It all depends upon what you are able to get comfortable using.

[grayfox]

PA has a 4-14 with an arc2-Moa reticle, which is in even moa’s... I have a couple and one is on my RAP. I like that scope. Plus as the guys say, this gives you better ability to get right on bullseye... and by the way, different bullets or loads will have different paths and moa bullet drops, so the acss style has lots of ways to be off for you. A big downer in my book.

[GrendelFanatic]

PA has a 4-14 with an arc2-Moa reticle, which is in even moa’s... I have a couple and one is on my RAP. I like that scope. Plus as the guys say, this gives you better ability to get right on bullseye... and by the way, different bullets or loads will have different paths and moa bullet drops, so the acss style has lots of ways to be off for you. A big downer in my book.

I like the Arc2. PA makes a 3-18 with a moa grid. It is way too complicated for me to take advantage of. Out of curiosity, what scope mount are you using with the 4-14?

[VASCAR2]

I’m not grayfox but take a look at Warne 30 MM SKEL one piece mount. I recommend you get a 20 MOA canted mount if your going to shoot at long distances. The 20 MOA mount is about the same price as zero cant mount at most vendors. I have several of these mounts and they have been gtg for me.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1592158542

[grayfox]

Since it is on my ruger predator (bolt gun) I'm using vortex 30mm rings, I think the low set, it has a pic rail already there so elevation is fine for the scope bell.
I like stuff like rings to be put-it-on-and-forget... I had one of a utg set break, so I went to the vortex.

[FRB6.5]

Most of the ACSS reticles are in Strelok. The free version of the app will work fine for what you are trying to figure out and you can see exactly what each stadia line equals for your load.

[grayfox]

True. I think also the Arc2-moa is in there, the free version, which is what I have.
He seems to update and add to even the free version from time to time.
In any case, try to visualize both the scope and what you will do with it.
If using more than one bullet or load setup, which is what I do with each of my rifles, I still think the straight mil or moa type scale is the most versatile.

[GrendelFanatic]

I haven’t found the free version of Strelok yet. I’ll keep looking. I actually made another thread just about the mount and forgot about it. But it didn’t really come to a conclusion besides Aero scope mounts don’t hold zero. My gunsmith uses weaver ar mounts but I can’t find a 20 moa version. I was going to go with a Larue C. A. N. QD at one point but now I’m not sure it’s what I need.

[Croak]

Got reminded of a tip while watching a video last night, and it does work. If you have a 5.56 or .308 BDC and are using a Grendel (or any cartridge with similar ballistics for that matter), zero it at 300 yards. The trick is, when you zero, don't zero on the chevron or center dot, zero using the 300yd hold mark on the BDC.

That's obviously going to be dead on at 300, but it's also going to be pretty damned close as near as 25 yards and out to about 600 (using the appropriate holdover stadia).

Not precision rifle close, but combat close. No mucking around with an app, no trying to remember half-arsed holdovers, just range it and send it. It'll give some of the precision shooters here the willies (as it should) but a lot of folks just want effective rounds on target and don't care about tight groups, and they don't want to muck around with mils or MOA math either. There's a reason BDC reticles are so popular.

[AK10mm]

Here's what I do with my intermediate to long range hunting rifles. I typically use a decent mid tier Vortex Viper PST 3-15x44 scope with exposed turrets.

Put all of the relevant info for my load into a ballistic calculator. Print out a drop chart. I personally use MOA myself.

Zero my scope at 100yds, and then just spin the knobs for whatever distance I'm shooting at.

I've used this system for a long time now. It's pretty simple once you get used to it. And I can't see any reason it wouldn't apply to the 65G