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Hello everyone I know this is a well heated subject so I'll get right to the point. As you all know by now I'm new to the AR platform. While on a hunting trip in November this question came up around the camp fire. A friend of mine had just purchased a new 223 rifle and was anticipating shooting it at the range after the morning hunt. To make a long story short, he shot the rifle for 2 full days, I would guess putting somewhere between 100-150 rounds throughout it, with no particular procedure and without any cleaning. Basically just load and shoot. The rifle shot sub MOA all day long during this time. Now, two days later, a guy comes in to camp and so happens to have all the necessary equipment to "clean" the rifle. He talks my friend into letting him do the "proper" break in on the barrel, shooting, cleaning, repeat, repeat, etc. Now, what Ive noticed during this procedure was, the rifle was shooting sub MOA right out of the box. Now after every cleaning it was shooting 2 MOA with the first 3 shots but consistently improving with ever shot. It took about 10 shot to get it back to sub MOA. All testing was done with the same ammo ( right now the brand and gr has slipped my mind) at 100 yards from a bench with a sand bag rest and a 12 power scope. Do barrels need to be "broke in"? This 1 obviously didn't.... But I must say this is the only experience I've had with barrel break in. I sure some will argue that things weren't done right out of the box and that this had an effect, and so on. I'm not claiming to know a lot about this, as I don't , I just thought I would share an experience I had. What do you seasoned veterans think about barrel break ?
not the first time Ive heard that kind of story, I do the break in procedure just for the sake of doing it, but I have no proof that it helps any. Im sure someone will chime in.
I have no break-in procedure but for a new barrel I keep it clean and treat it gentle. At the range I run a bore snake through it every 10-20 shots and a good scrubbing when I get home. If that has had an effect, don't know for sure, it's more for piece of mind. I know I didn't abuse it and
so far works for me.
Ho Ho Ho
Just shoot it...load development is hard enough without having to jump through fiery hoops in between running patched down a pipe.
+1 ..... shoot it like you stole it. Clean after every range trip. Just don't get all crazy with your scrubbing. Cleaning rods do more damage than anything else.
I believe in breaking a barrel in. Not so much for accuracy sakes as much as for ease of cleaning in the future. To do it I clean between each of the first ten shots, then after every five for the next 25.
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I tried it once a long time ago on a new Remington PSS that looked like it had been rifled with a piece of gravel. It shot the same after as it did before. The bore looked like hell, but it always shot pretty well regardless. I even gave it 500 strokes of JB bore compound after that-- no change, same groups. Since then I don't break anything in. If I think of it, I pull a bore snake through a new tube before I shoot it the first time, but that is it.
I have learned to clean a bore after shooting Nosler bullets if I'm switching to Sierras or something else though. I was having inconsistent groups shooting my 19.5" Grendel with 120 Nosler BTs, 120 Sierras and 123 Lapuas. Bill A. pointed out that he had seen groups open up with other makers bullets after shooting Noslers, and recommended that I clean my bore after shooting the Noslers. Low and behold he was exactly right in my experience. Shoot Sierras-- good groups, shoot Noslers-- good groups, shoot Sierras after Noslers-- crappy groups. Clean bore-- Sierras shoot well again... weird! Something to do with jacket material I guess.
You should follow the manufactures recommendations on cleaning the barrel as all are different. Most of the top barrels makers hand lap their barrels which means the bore has a almost mirror finish. The reason to break in a barrel is the throat which was not hand lapped and still has reamer marks when the chamber was formed and has some sharp edges which need to be polished by firing. When a round is loaded, the throat which is rough, will scrape off fine particles of copper. Upon firing these particles are vaporized and carried and deposited down the bore. Copper sticks very well to itself so if left untouched it will build up quickly and makes the copper fouling harder to remove.
Source:
http://www.krieger.com
brickcues Wrote:You should follow the manufactures recommendations on cleaning the barrel as all are different. Most of the top barrels makers hand lap their barrels which means the bore has a almost mirror finish. The reason to break in a barrel is the throat which was not hand lapped and still has reamer marks when the chamber was formed and has some sharp edges which need to be polished by firing. When a round is loaded, the throat which is rough, will scrape off fine particles of copper. Upon firing these particles are vaporized and carried and deposited down the bore. Copper sticks very well to itself so if left untouched it will build up quickly and makes the copper fouling harder to remove.
Source:
http://www.krieger.com
I couldn't agree more...well said.
May I add, take care of those High $$$ barrels and use a quality bore guide. I've seen many barrels damaged by poor cleaning techniques. For the guy shooting sub MOA out of the box.....do everything possible to preserve that barrel. I've spent many seasons shooting precision benchrest and most will agree that all barrels are not created equal. Sounds like you have a gem there.
It is the consensus of the High Power National Match competitors that barrel break in is a bunch of huey invented by the barrel makers to allow them to blame bad performing barrels on the shooter not following their documented break in process. This is from shooters who routinely burn up a barrel every year, and do it year after year. I've personally gone through three barrels now on my personal competition rifle. The first one I followed the normal drawn out process of shooting one shot and cleaning shooting five shots and cleaning and so on. On my last two I just shot them to get a good zero, perhaps 20 shots and cleaned and then cleaned after every match or practice session there after, normally 88 shots with 40 of them fired rapid fire. I can tell no difference in accuracy or ease of cleaning. All three of these barrels shot .5 MOA from day one through their life of 3,000-5,000 rounds.
Bob
Many have hit it spot on.
Barrel breaking is process or advice by manufacter to reduce copper fouling in the bore in the average rifle. Your friend has experianced cold bore versus fouled bore shots. HP shooters (some camps do some don't) just swab out the bore before a match in order to have some fouling some use a clean bore and use the sighters to foul the bore. A clean bore will not place shots in the same location as a fouled bore does. What makes a tfouled bore work is dependant on a lot of vaiable steel used in barrel type bullet, propelleant, etc,etc. so there is no real # of shots that properly fouls the bore some its 3 shots some 20.
I have heard that the break in procedures was devised to wear out barrels quicker by a certain manufactor that caught on by the industry. Is this a fact I dunno, but I do know if a rifle shoots sub MOA fouled that is the way you need to shoot it. I have match 22LR that if I clean I mean spotless will do MOA of a barn however if I just swab with a patch and jag will about drive the same spot to the rimfire world don't clean untill accuracy drops off. when shifing Brands of 22 Ammo they will alot of times fiore 20 to let the barrel settle in on the hermonics of thje new ammo before evaluating the shots groups remember the Small Bore guys can't modify their ammo except brand changes.
Your friend has acutally broke in the barrel with the 100-200 shots he already took prior to "ahh I need to do break in" Funny in thje Military world if we get a new rifle we just shoot it and use the same regiment of cleaning as a broke in bore. shoot the day shots when ready to put up clean the rifle. (yes those bore are chrome lined plated to reduce corrision in the bore)
The only real advice I have heard as far as Break in procedures that makes sense to me is to reduce the affenity to copper foul and allow the throat to properly polish before copper foals it. some barrels will foul quickly in the throat with copper some will not even given same manufacter it is a vaiable that can't not be predicted it happens or it doesn't. The procedure is used to sort of prevent those barrel that could copper foul quickly from doing so by having the throat taking a polish prior to use.
While it seems I state this with great authority bear in mind this how I understand this and is based on conversations without any documentation other than observations so YMMV.
my bottom line opinion your friend has found his regiment for his barrel just shoot it and clean as normal, it is performing to what he wants. My experiance mimicks Bob's
After a certain experiment at an instructor course for snipers in Finland, they came to the conclusion that "cold bore shooter" should replace "cold bore shot". This was determined on the 2nd day of shooting in the morning, where half the class was instructed to practice dry-firing until they felt really confident about taking their first shot, while the others did nothing different.
There was a noticeable difference in lack of "foulers" with the attendees who dry-fired, and plenty of "cold bore shots" with those who went straight into shooting "cold turkey". I know foulers are a normal practice in the bench rest crowd, which seems to me to be more of a zero-confirmation, but those are guns that shoot 10-round groups into one hole.
Yes, barrels break in. Do you need to do any kind of voodoo ritual for it? No, I don't think so.
Barrels foul more when new. Good barrels cleanup quick and the fouling becomes less apparent in a short time. Factory barrels might not ever clean up. I just clean after every range session, and I use copper solvent. On new barrels, I might use a heavy ammonia for the first few range sessions. After the barrel starts fouling less, I'll just use my standard routine of butches bore shine.
was at the Bartein barrel Site and they like many have a break in procedure after giving it a read I have to say this is almost the best advice I have seen on the Errornet.
from Bartlein---------
The age old question, "Breaking in the New Barrel". Opinions very a lot here, and this is a very subjective topic. For the most part, the only thing you are breaking in, is the throat area of the barrel. The nicer the finish that the Finish Reamer or Throating Reamer leaves, the faster the throat will break in.
Shoot one round and clean for the first two rounds individually. Look to see what the barrel is telling you. If I'm getting little to no copper out of it, I sit down and shoot the gun. Say 4 - 5 round groups and then clean. If the barrel cleans easily and shoots well, we consider it done.
If the barrel shows some copper or is taking a little longer to clean after the first two, shoot a group of 3 rounds and clean. Then a group of 5 and clean.
After you shoot the 3rd group and 5th group, watch how long it takes to clean. Also notice your group sizes. If the group sizes are good and the cleaning is getting easier or is staying the same, then shoot 4 - 5 round groups.
If fouling appears to be heavy and taking a while to clean, notice your group sizes. If group sizes are good and not going sour, you don't have a fouling problem. Some barrels will clean easier than others. Some barrels may take a little longer to break in. Remember the throat. Fouling can start all the way from here. We have noticed sometimes that even up to approximately 100 rounds, a barrel can show signs of a lot of copper, but it still shoots really well and then for no apparent reason, you will notice little to no copper and it will clean really easy.
This is meant as guide lines only. There is no hard and fast rule for breaking in a barrel.
SOOOO unless I am Crazy this manufactuer is telling me that my Barrel "Could" break-in in as little as 7 Rounds or as many as 50 or better depending on the barrel but if accuracy is good go for broke.
like I stated I just stumbled on to this from them. and thought I would share
LRRPF52 Wrote:After a certain experiment at an instructor course for snipers in Finland, they came to the conclusion that "cold bore shooter" should replace "cold bore shot". .
LRRPF52,
Sir I have heard this before also .............. that the shooter warms up with the gun during firing vs doing the dry firing.
on the "Cold Turkey" shooters what was the differance between them and those that warmed up by dry firing??
The point I was shooting for is I know many whom do not "clean" their rifle between sessions
but rather use a bore snake leaving a little bit of fouling to keep the bore at a constant.
I too was a 1000 yd shooter and tryed many procedures in the years past.. came to the same conclusion Bartein says.. let the barrel tell you what it needs..
New barrel shoot 2 to 5 shots >.clean for fouling then a good copper cleaner like Sweets 7.62 .. if you don't get alot of copper.. shoot 5 to 10 more .. clean and copper clean .. if still no big copper on patch shoot and have fun..
if you get a lot of copper shoot 10 rds clean.. shoot 10 clean,,.continue till you see the copper deposits lessen
Thats worked well for me for years now..
Thanks
Smoke
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