Important information about bump stocks

[montana]

I would submit that this is a really, REALLY BAD argument to be making.

The reality is exactly what LR55 stated:

You appear to believe the leftists care about mass shootings, killings via bombings, killings via running cars or trucks into people, etc. They want all guns banned and mass shootings are simply a easier way for them to get public support. If they really cared about safety, they would do more than just shrug their shoulders about the cop who got murdered by the illegal over the weekend in California. The last leftist I heard talk about it said something to the effect of 'well, being a policeman is a dangerous job'.

In the late 1800's, civilians had more firepower than the military. Lever action rifles were far superior in firepower than the single shot rifles the military was using. Yet there was no outcry for banning civilian lever action rifles. When influencing the gun challenged, ignorant, voter whose only knowledge of firearms are hollyweird movies and TV dramas, the left has had a fairly easy job pushing their agenda. The 1stA is probably in more danger today than the 2nd. This is why today, pro gun channels are being de-monetized and extreme leftist crap has been left unmolested. In most government and private institutions, a persons job and lively hood is at risk, if one refuses to accept the 71 genders insanity. Almost every news outlet, educational and governmental institution has been completely infected with leftist idealism. Propaganda is a very powerful force which the left has dominated for decades, with predictable results. Any person with any firearm knowledge knows a skilled rifle man is much more effective than a nut job with a slide fire toy. This is not even debatable. Convincing ignorant, bathroom challenged voting soy boys is another.

[LR1955]

I would submit that this is a really, REALLY BAD argument to be making.

Stan:

I agree and it is one of those arguments that gives someone who is undecided two alternatives. The first is to be murdered by someone who isn't aiming and the second is to be murdered by someone who is aiming.

Surely a better argument is out there?

LR55

[stanc]

Any person with any firearm knowledge knows a skilled rifle man is much more effective than a nut job with a slide fire toy. This is not even debatable. Convincing ignorant, bathroom challenged voting soy boys is another.

58 killed, 400-plus wounded, by a nut job with a slide fire "toy." The worst mass shooting by an individual in US history.

Do you really want to convince people that the body count would've been higher if unaltered semi-auto rifles were used?

[montana]

58 killed, 400-plus wounded, by a nut job with a slide fire "toy." The worst mass shooting by an individual in US history.

Do you really want to convince people that the body count would've been higher if unaltered semi-auto rifles were used?

I was talking reality, not feelings. I wouldn't want to convince people how vulnerable they are drinking from a community water system or any other methods of mass destruction some nut job will discover a weakness from. What if the nut job killed more than 58, lets say 80 some with a precision bolt action rifle? What if he killed over a 100 some with green anti freeze while serving drinks??? One EMP explosion strategically placed over the US would literally kill 90% of the population, yet the left and right has done literally nothing to prevent this. Gun bans are not about reality, but about retaining and gaining power. Heck, if body count was important, you of all people should know where the most vulnerable live with almost zero protection. Talk about fish in a barrel. The truth is, we live in a dangerous world and as LR55 pointed out, the left could care less about resolving the problem. They welcome it as it is another tool, "to be exploited for retaining and gaining power" for their political objective. The real danger and horror for people, "that has been repeated over and over throughout history" is the concentration of power in the hands of the few. For some reason, "convincing people of that danger" falls on deaf ear!
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/12/racism-...z5bHYqwRrs
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-de...ree-n41966
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-...erica.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zE0K22zH8

[montana]

I think Bonhaeffer's warning is as relevant today as it was in Nazi Germany.

“Upon closer observation, it becomes apparent that every strong upsurge of power in the public sphere, be it of a political or a religious nature, infects a large part of humankind with stupidity. … The power of the one needs the stupidity of the other. The process at work here is not that particular human capacities, for instance, the intellect, suddenly atrophy or fail. Instead, it seems that under the overwhelming impact of rising power, humans are deprived of their inner independence and, more or less consciously, give up establishing an autonomous position toward the emerging circumstances. The fact that the stupid person is often stubborn must not blind us to the fact that he is not independent. In conversation with him, one virtually feels that one is dealing not at all with him as a person, but with slogans, catchwords, and the like that have taken possession of him. He is under a spell, blinded, misused, and abused in his very being. Having thus become a mindless tool, the stupid person will also be capable of any evil and at the same time incapable of seeing that it is evil. This is where the danger of diabolical misuse lurks, for it is this that can once and for all destroy human beings.”

[stanc]

I was talking reality, not feelings.

Feelings are a big part of reality. Feelings are the main reason why mass shootings are an issue.

Heck, if body count was important...

If you think body count is not important, then you haven't been paying attention.

Body count is why 50 people killed in one shooting makes headline news, while one person killed in each of 50 separate shootings receives little attention.

The truth is, we live in a dangerous world and as LR55 pointed out, the left could care less about resolving the problem.

They do, however, want to ban semi-autos, and this "It would be worse without bump stocks" argument only helps their cause.

Since you've been citing LR55 so much, I'll refer you to what he said in his last post:

I agree and it is one of those arguments that gives someone who is undecided two alternatives. The first is to be murdered by someone who isn't aiming and the second is to be murdered by someone who is aiming.

[montana]

Feelings are a big part of reality. Feelings are the main reason why mass shootings are an issue.


If you think body count is not important, then you haven't been paying attention.

I'm not disagreeing with you. It is the amount of focus and propaganda given to this problem compared to other real threats that are glossed over with little attention, since it doesn't serve a political agenda. This is an interesting statement from you about feelings, "since my wife has told me numerous times this is a flaw in my character of understanding". Yet she has admitted, "in the end" I was right when all was said and done. I'm still confused by this none the less! Feelings are feelings and reality is reality!

Body count is why 50 people killed in one shooting makes headline news, while one person killed in each of 50 separate shootings receives little attention.

I agree again, since solving real problems takes a back seat to political gain by the left. This is why I have kept pounding the drum of perspective vs reality.

They do, however, want to ban semi-autos, and this "It would be worse without bump stocks" argument only helps their cause.

If we only sing on their stage, I would agree 100%. We need to focus the dialog on reality, not hyperbole statements turned into false realities. We keep reacting instead of being pro active. Why do you think I mentioned the attack on the 1stA. The left knows it can only win if we play by their rules and they control the stage. We need to pull the blinds away from their distortions and lies. We have already lost if we keep playing tit for tat as Trump and the NRA just did. Slowed the process down, "perhaps" but it does nothing in the long run for finding a cure.

Since you've been citing LR55 so much, I'll refer you to what he said in his last post:

You may have a point! When I have encountered a problem, I always directed my focus on reality, not emotion. Perhaps I'm asking too much of others, since I seem to be failing on a gun forum lol. Knowing how to React from a pure emotional state is beyond my neanderthal mind set.

[stanc]

I'm not disagreeing with you. It is the amount of focus and propaganda given to this problem compared to other real threats that are glossed over with little attention, since it doesn't serve a political agenda.

Focus and propaganda on which problem, and by whom? What other "real threats"?

This is an interesting statement from you about feelings, "since my wife has told me numerous times this is a flaw in my character of understanding". Yet she has admitted, "in the end" I was right when all was said and done. I'm still confused by this none the less! Feelings are feelings and reality is reality!

Peoples' feelings are real. To think that feelings are somehow separate from reality is a denial of reality.

We need to focus the dialog on reality, not hyperbole statements turned into false realities.

:confused: I have no idea what you mean by such a vague statement. Care to elaborate?

We keep reacting instead of being pro active.

I agree. Any ideas for effective pro-active actions?

We have already lost if we keep playing tit for tat as Trump and the NRA just did.

They didn't play tit for tat. They surrendered.

Slowed the process down, "perhaps" but it does nothing in the long run for finding a cure.

Concur. The bump stock ban will not prevent future mass shootings.

You may have a point! When I have encountered a problem, I always directed my focus on reality, not emotion. Perhaps I'm asking too much of others, since I seem to be failing on a gun forum lol.

Perhaps you are not articulating what you mean in a way that's understandable by others?

[montana]

If lessening the problem of mass shootings, murder, robberies, accidents, etc was the real focus, extensive mandatory training, psych evaluations and back ground checks would be encouraged. Individual weapons training for carry, rules of engagement, and legal aspects would be a requirement for those willing to put the effort in, time and money. When those requirements are met , then gun bans and prohibition on firearm carry becomes a none issue . Yearly fresher courses would not be unreasonable. Monthly competitions would be encouraged with the support of local shooting chapters. Nothing improves shooting and safety skills more than than shooting thousands of rounds under the stress of competition.. Most law enforcement training fails miserably, "compared to competition shooting" for improving shooting skills. There is no cure for life and no training will prevent every tragedy, but it is a far better idea than banning modern firearms, concealed carry or letting every yahoo of age believe they are a competent shooter because they watched a YouTube video. There would be thousands, if not millions of a fresh pool of teachers, volunteers, etc to protect defenseless people like in our schools. Even in bars there could be designated armed people who would not drink yet be able to carry like a designated driver. On that same note, ignoring the millions of deaths by the hand of government and the purpose of the 2nA "aka" division of power is even worse. Pretending big government is no risk and can solve all problems is not only a lie, but criminal. The deaths by modern sporting rifles is insignificant compared to driving while texting and yes, "even falling out of bed" yet no one would know this by listening to the propaganda of the left run news. It is much easier to direct people by controlling peoples emotions by a hundred mass shooting deaths, rather than 250,000 deaths from medical malpractice. The 1 to 2 million crimes prevented every year by private gun ownership never seems to enter the picture when the left discusses gun control. That is the propaganda focused by the left I'm talking about. LR55 gave a perfect example of the lefts response to the officer murdered by an illegal alien. It doesn't fit the propaganda of open borders and future democratic voters. If illegal immigrants voted republican, the wall would have been built years ago. It matters very little to the left, if it does not follow their political agenda. Mandatory training and NFA type back ground checks is what I would be willing to negotiate or compromise to help prevent mass shootings. But the left would have to compromise on gun bans and carry laws. I would bet a king's ransom, the left would never consider this, because it doesn't give them what they really want. Complete power and control. The left will use the levers of government to keep the American people in a constant state of agitation. The only thing the left hates more than a happy population is losing elections. And it knows the two are linked – because happy and grateful Americans rarely vote Democrat. The road to Democrat victories lies in convincing women, blacks, Hispanics, Jews and young people to be as unhappy, ungrateful and angry as possible.Solving mass shootings and violent crime is not in the best interest of the lefts agenda.