SBR question

[ulmapache]

Ok, probably been flogged to death...but here goes.
If my barrel is under 16 inches, but OAL is over 26 inches, is it still a SBR? And the other side...if barrel is over 16 inches, but OAL is under 26 inches, it it a SBR?Thx for not flaming me too bad...LOL
Oh, is there such a thing as a permanently attached suppressor? Would that count in calculating barrel length?
Again, thx for the replies...

[LRRPF52]

If you pin and weld a suppressor or have the suppressor baffle stack integrally machined into the barrel blank and then sleeved for an overall length of 16”, it does not fall under the SBR infringements mistakenly conceived by the sodomite/Nazi sympathizer and mole, Harold Knutson, during the 1934 NFA hearings.

SWS makes barrels integrally-suppressed with a Titanium sleeve that slides over the barrel/baffle stack, with a tiny gas block that fastens over that.





Daniel Defense introduced the Integrally Suppressed DDM4ISR:



Whitt Machine used to make their Integrally Suppressed AR-15, but I don’t see it on their site anymore.



I think the handguard got so hot that you couldn’t touch it.

[LRRPF52]

There used to be come interesting 9mm SMG integrally suppressed AR-15s:



KAC version:



LaRue SUURG isn’t an SBR since the suppressor sleeves over the ventilated barrel forend core.

[LRRPF52]

Per ATF/NFA illegal infringements enforced by the criminal gangs of thugs wearing badges with zero Constitutional powers...

26” has to do with arbitrary definitions of conceivability not mentioned in the NFA.

The unconstitutional set of infringements known as the NFA violate the Bill of Rights by illegally regulating:

* Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS), which are barrels shorter than 18” length. The original proposal was for 16”, but the sodomite Nazi sympathizer/mole asked the AG if they could bump it up to 18” for extra infringement credit.
* Machineguns, which are listed as firearms capable of firing more than one round at a time with a single action of the trigger, except double barrel shotguns.
* Short Barreled Rifles (SBRs), which were originally set at 18” like shotguns, then changed to 16” in the 1960s...because.....reasons.
* Silencers or Mufflers, with zero explanation given and zero debate on the merits of their prohibition, taxation, and restriction during all 5 days of the 1934 hearings
* Any Other Weapons (AOWs)

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Any Other Weapon” means:

Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive;
?
A pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell;
?
Weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading; and

Any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire.
Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

There are some summaries on all these weird and arbitrary infringements listed by the Congressional Research Service.

I’ve been actively trying to wrap my head around the merits and origins of these infringements since the 1980s, and I must admit that I still don’t understand the 26” metric or AOWs. You can’t have a firearm less than 26” in overall length, but pistols are exempt from that? Does not compute in any sense of logic or technical understanding of firearms.

The reason we even have the AOW infringements is because pistols were supposed to be taxed and restricted from the people under the NFA, and the AOW was just insurance for the citizen-disarmament tyrants in the AG, DOJ, and FBI secret police at the time.

[ulmapache]

Ok, p'raps I should not have mentioned suppressor...LOL!!! Great replies tho. So, back to the question:If my barrel is under 16 inches, but OAL is over 26 inches, is it still a SBR? And the other side...if barrel is over 16 inches, but OAL is under 26 inches, it it a SBR? As defined by the criminal gang known as the "BATF"...
Again...thx for the replies.

[dpete]

If my barrel is under 16 inches, but OAL is over 26 inches, is it still a SBR?
YES. SBR = under 16" barrel. It might qualify as an AOW but you would get arrested first and then sit while they sort things out.

And the other side...if barrel is over 16 inches, but OAL is under 26 inches, it it a SBR?
NO. SBR = under 16" barrel. I may be wrong, but I don't think a firearm with a 16" or longer barrel could possibly be under 26" OAL, unless we're talking about one of the super long barrel revolvers. But those are pistols.

[mtnlvr]

For the SBR designation, I'd say it depends. Did this start out as a rifle, pistol, or other? Are you planning on putting a stock/brace on it?

[lazyengineer]

<16" BBL and the ability to be shoulder fired = SBR.
<26" firearm with attachments fully extended, and ability to be shoulder fired = SBR. This can be relevant to bullpups.

The two are independent of each other.

Permiant attachments that are pin and welded, extend barrel length. Note that barrel extensions (inside reciever) does not. Threaded on items secured simply by torque and loctite do not. It's basically measure by rod from closed bolt to end of barrel with all threaded or otherwise removable muzzle bits removed.

FWIW a carefully done P&W job can be quickly removed by filing off the weld and pulling out the pin, should one decide to replace or alter the item - though have a care that technically its an SBR for that short term, if it is shoulder fireAble.

Also, in case you missed it, for 10 years the ATF has said arm braces are arm braces, and aren't intended to be shoulder fired, and so are not stocks, and so such items so equiped onto complete firearms are actually pistols. This year, they changed their mind. If you already have one of such, I doubt ATF enforcement will be serious, and they are already on thin ice with the courts. However, I would exercise care building something like that anew going forward. No commercial standard FFL will sell you a complete firearm <16" BBL with an armbrace today - which tells you all you need to know on if that's a good idea.

[ulmapache]

Ok, I think I've got my head wrapped around it...I think... What I have in mind is a 16 inch barrel, normal upper and lower, and carbine length buffer tunbe for one of those "minimalist" shopulder stocks. Not messing around with braces etc. As for the suppressor, I hope to acquire something in the 4 inch range. Oh, I'm left handed, so Red X arms or maybe Stag Arms will have to supply the upper and BCG.
If I'm reading all this correctly, even if my OAL is over 26 inches, a 10 inch barrel will class me as a SBR...and I don't want the hassle...it's gonna be enought to get that suppressor. Thanks again for all the replies!!!!

[Klem]

ulma,

Interested in why you prefer a left-handed AR action, because you are left-handed. Are you aware you can build full ambidextrous into AR's now: selector, mag release, slide-locking lever release, and charge handle. As a leftie I've never been hit in the head with a spent case, plus it's easy to see what's going on with the BCG and breech.