07-25-2023, 04:00 AM (This post was last modified: 07-25-2023, 04:10 AM by Klem.)
I have two NF compacts that do not have ranges marked on their focus/parallax knobs. They have increment lines and varying sized dots instead. I read the NX8 is the same, no yardage marked. On their ATACR however ranges are marked.
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On March scopes ranges are marked, however the knob movement range is so tight between 100 and infinity that they can only manage to mark '100' and 'Infinity' (see photo). Seems strange their parallax knob can go almost a full turn yet the usable range is tiny. A high zoom ratio might have something to do with it,
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I use ranges marked on the focus/parallax knob as a rough guide only. Not having the knob's yardage match a known distance is normal. As a left handed shooter I can't even see yardages on the parallax knob when in position. I crank the knob while doing the bob head technique and looking away often so the eyes don't force-focus. Sometimes I dial off to see mirage then dial back on, but I can't see the dial.
Klem Wrote:I have two NF compacts that do not have ranges marked on their focus/parallax knobs. They have increment lines and varying sized dots instead. I read the NX8 is the same, no yardage marked. On their ATACR however ranges are marked.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19864[/ATTACH]
On March scopes ranges are marked, however the knob movement range is so tight between 100 and infinity that they can only manage to mark '100' and 'Infinity' (see photo). Seems strange their parallax knob can go almost a full turn yet the usable range is tiny. A high zoom ratio might have something to do with it,
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19865[/ATTACH]
I use ranges marked on the focus/parallax knob as a rough guide only. Not having the knob's yardage match a known distance is normal. As a left handed shooter I can't even see yardages on the parallax knob when in position. I crank the knob while doing the bob head technique and looking away often so the eyes don't force-focus. Sometimes I dial off to see mirage then dial back on, but I can't see the dial.
Klem:
A blessing for sure not to have numbers but rather lines or dots, providing one cares. The whole thing is kind of pointless in my opinion. Two days with vastly different mirage will probably mean different adjustments and setting for the same distance.
I follow the procedure you do automatically and don't care if the setting is different. Probably because I never look at the dial in the first place. I do think that most of the time it is on or around the infinity mark anyway. Maybe a touch back and forth but not a lot to get focused.
The ultimate point is, it won't focus at reasonable distances. The fact that they take an entirely different range of motion from the stop point to focus at the same object is an indication that something is not right with at least one of them. When you can't focus a target 300M away, the 385 and 500 become pretty difficult on the reduced sized targets as you are aiming at vapors with a moving reticle. The idea is to get the reticle on the same plane as the target... you can't do that on infinity all the time... that's not the way optics work, or were designed to be used.
Zeneffect Wrote:The ultimate point is, it won't focus at reasonable distances. The fact that they take an entirely different range of motion from the stop point to focus at the same object is an indication that something is not right with at least one of them. When you can't focus a target 300M away, the 385 and 500 become pretty difficult on the reduced sized targets as you are aiming at vapors with a moving reticle. The idea is to get the reticle on the same plane as the target... you can't do that on infinity all the time... that's not the way optics work, or were designed to be used.
ZE:
If it won't focus, it is broken so send it on back.
I sent back a Razor dot sight a month or so ago. Lens chipped and it shifted my windage about fifteen minutes. No idea how it happened but it happened. Filled out their return form and sent it back. Got a brand new one in about three weeks.
I expect your optic to take a bit longer but most likely it will be back to you in six weeks.
I wouldn't be happy. Wasn't happy to have to return the dot sight.
Zeneffect Wrote:speed in rma is one thing. not breaking in the first place is another.
seems like the 2nd can never be avoided regardless of the manufacturer based on this conversation.
solution: send scopes in yearly during planned maintenance schedules, good or bad. this should cut down on the fails during worst possible time right?
ZE:
Never knew any of these optic makers had a yearly maintenance service. Not sure what I would do but my Nightforce scopes have been doing fine for fifteen plus years.
Just not sure you or I would manipulate the dials so much as to wear things out. I can put my gear through a lot of abuse and I guess if something breaks, it breaks.
I have no idea what a company would do to service an optic but I bet it would cost the user a bit of money and the optic would be out for several months.
All depends on how OCD a guy is I guess. Not for me. If it breaks, it breaks and I get it fixed. I am not shooting at any level where having an optic break on me during a match means anything. I do carry a back up though, and won't hesitate to put it on and use it.
Box it up and send it home. Will see what they say when the dust settles.
Zeneffect Wrote:speed in rma is one thing. not breaking in the first place is another.
seems like the 2nd can never be avoided regardless of the manufacturer based on this conversation.
solution: send scopes in yearly during planned maintenance schedules, good or bad. this should cut down on the fails during worst possible time right?
No... send it in when you need to and avoid all the unnecessary shipping costs. Sending a good scope to them is pointless, just to have them check it and send it back, they won't do anything to it if it's not "broke".
All you do is increase the likelihood something happens during transit or after you remount it and it just has to go back again. Plus the downtime on the gun, having to remount/re-zero the optic.
Zeneffect Wrote:Lost parallax adjustment beyond 200 yards today... right after the 1st stage with no optic backup. I ran infinity parallax and shot a hot mess and it has me kind of pissed off. The third place should have been a first. When the slightest shift is 3" at 550 yards... I miss if the damn reticle is moving against the target and target requirement is hitting a 5" plate.
This is the 2nd vortex scope that has failed me during a match. The first was a viper that lost elevation, now this venom has lost parallax. I think I'll be avoiding vortex everything moving forward. If this were a do or die moment, nah. Points is one thing, but points represent a make or break shot. If I can't trust my equipment then I can't make that shot... and one day it might be me or someone I know counting on that hit.
I can't do it. It's not up to the standards of which I require. I'm pulling every piece of vortex glass I have, rma, then sell it. I can't put up with this kind of frustration any more. Fool(fail) me once shame on you, fool(fail) me twice...
07-26-2023, 03:27 PM (This post was last modified: 07-26-2023, 03:40 PM by Zeneffect.)
When I'm spending $500 for anything I can hold in 1 hand, expectations of durability and quality will be high. Not everyone is afforded the opportunity to spend $3k-6k on a scope, and to a vast majority of people in the world $500 is no small amount to spend. $500 is a new decent barrel that would improve accuracy far more than a scope would, some persons rent for the month, etc.
Yes, in the grand scheme of things it puts it at the lower end of the scale but still should meet basic expectations of not breaking under normal use in under a year.
No doubt, vortex has great warranty/repair service however at this point in time I much prefer to not have to use a warranty... or at least not nearly as frequently as I am currently which is twice already in 2023.
Zeneffect Wrote:When I'm spending $500 for anything I can hold in 1 hand, expectations of durability and quality will be high. Not everyone is afforded the opportunity to spend $3k-6k on a scope, and to a vast majority of people in the world $500 is no small amount to spend. $500 is a new decent barrel that would improve accuracy far more than a scope would, some persons rent for the month, etc.
Yes, in the grand scheme of things it puts it at the lower end of the scale but still should meet basic expectations of not breaking under normal use in under a year.
No doubt, vortex has great warranty/repair service however at this point in time I much prefer to not have to use a warranty... or at least not nearly as frequently as I am currently which is twice already in 2023.
You can expect it, but you're not going to get it from a scope. I hear you on struggling to pay these costs, especially with everything else inflating exponentially. However, what we can afford has no bearing on what something costs to design, manufacture, and get to the consumer.
In order to bring more affordable glass options to market, they have to cut costs. I don't work in this industry, but I suspect the two largest cost differentiators are the quantity of quality inspections and the tooling, specifically the tooling's ability to produce to tighter tolerances. You're going to produce products with a wider span across the quality spectrum as you reduce inspections points and utilize cheaper tooling. There are going to be diamonds in the rough, most are going to fall in the middle of the spectrum, but a significant amount are bound to be on the low end of the spectrum.
It's simply the nature of the beast. It's pay to play. We're not entitled to the latest and greatest. I'd suggest scouring the classifieds for previous gen models. It'll be your best bang for the buck. If that doesn't work out for you, then iron sights are still a great option.
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin
07-30-2023, 03:57 PM (This post was last modified: 07-30-2023, 04:59 PM by Zeneffect.)
The C624 MOAR. Had a 15% coupon with eurooptic which put this at the price of the nxs, ill take the upgraded glass even though it's a 50 vs 56mm objective
I'm finding the eurooptic open box + a decent coupon makes for a reasonably priced scope with full warranty.
Zeneffect Wrote:The C437 MOAR reticle. Had a 15% coupon with eurooptic which put this at the price of the nxs, ill take the upgraded glass even though it's a 50 vs 56mm objective
07-30-2023, 05:33 PM (This post was last modified: 07-30-2023, 06:12 PM by Zeneffect.)
The 437 is the nxs, I corrected to the nx8. Too many tabs open.. same reticle though... nearly the same scope honestly but just a few key differences. Saw their torture test, seemed legit that the whole dang scope didn't just fall apart. It's far more abuse than I would ever subject to a scope.
I had a parallax issue (yardage not aligning with focus) with my Athlon Ares BTR Gen1 scope that I paid less than $500 for on sale. I contacted their CS and sent it in for repair.
They sent me back the new Gen2 HD ($800) scope. Curious how Vortex handles this issue. Keep us updated.
I'm sure they will just send me back either repaired or new scopes of the same exact kind. Ive dealt with vortex warranty before and its hassle free. They provide a prepaid shipping label and such.
i have the sh4 4-16 on my grendel and i think i want the ep5 5-25 just to have i laying around...dont have anything to put it on right now..they are built like a tank...i think the ep5 has better glass than the sh models...the turrets are rock solid
you should check them out....i think they punch WAY above their price range
07-31-2023, 03:40 PM (This post was last modified: 07-31-2023, 04:19 PM by Zeneffect.)
I have looked through the ep5, I'm slowly cycling my way up the optics chain. I have dumped all the vortex scopes I have, and am now left with an inbound nightforce + the current meopta, and burris scopes. Nothing made in China. The meopta punches way above its weight as well. I hear that some production changed since I got mine so not sure if the new production is up to snuff, but they used to use schott ed and ht glass and assembled in the USA. They might be using glass from Hungary or their own now and assemble in the czech republic since covid changed a lot.
The general concensus is right. The same applies to high performance engines. If can onlynpick 2 of the 3 in a product. speed(glass), reliability, and low price. There IS a point of diminishing returns, and after doing hours of window shopping, looking through more glass than I should, talking to people at the range, looking at their scopes, getting feedback... I went with nightforce.
The point of diminishing returns starts at the atacr line. You don't get much more for more $$$. The color contrast was slightly better on the Schmidt and bender pmii but it wasn't $7000 scope good. When you need that kind of resolution and contrast.... you are in a position where your life is on the line as an occupation and you need to spot movement in the bush 1500 yards out + make a successful shot. that's not me, I go pew ping when the weather is nice. Only thing on the line is some cash and standing.
08-01-2023, 10:25 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2023, 01:50 AM by Zeneffect.)
Well nx8 + rings just arrived.
Eurooptic must have a different definition for "like new"
Like new must be something like "brand new overstock" or something because the scope came in a factory sealed box and is brand new as far as I can tell.
*edit
Rings/20moa mount is on
Only a few more hours before I can compare low light performance against some other Japanese ed glass, and European ed glass. The glass on this seems different somehow. Definately sharper than the MPO but also the leaves look like they move faster... its hard to explain but movement is easier to pick up, like frame rate is faster but it's just light so I don't quite understand what is going on just yet.
Edit... figured it out. Brain is playing tricks as the image has a different depth of field
![[Image: 20230801-151128.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/ydZJ0tVx/20230801-151128.jpg)
![[Image: 20230801-160234.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/g0tnZd83/20230801-160234.jpg)