I'm thinking of building a Grendel AR. This will be my first AR. I'm confident you guys won't try talking me out of the caliber  I love the ballistics of the Grendel and the power compared to 5.56. And 5.56 won't do what I need it to as a hunting cartridge. I think Grendel is perfect for white tails and also as a SHTF gun.
Other than AA, what manufacturers are out there?
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05-04-2012, 04:28 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2012, 05:20 AM by txgunner00.)
Howdy.
Loki Weapons Systems, Black Hole Weaponry, J&T distributors , JP Interprises, Satern are just a couple. Are you looking to buy complete upper/ lowers or completely build your own?
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Also Templar.
Welcome aboard mkjack!
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Variable Wrote:Also Templar.
Welcome aboard mkjack!
Thats the one I couldn't remember... Thanks.
05-04-2012, 05:50 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2017, 08:59 PM by LRRPF52.)
Welcome. Here's a list of Grendel manufacturers:
Rifles, Uppers, Barrels
Alexander Arms
LAR Mfg
Les Baer
J&T Distributing
JP Enterprises
Loki Weapon Systems
Precision Firearms
Sabre Defense (shut down by ATF, but products are still out there)
Templar Customs
Just Barrels:
Satern
There are also companies that are making .264 LBC rifles, uppers, and barrels, even though the Grendel chamber is SAAMI approved:
Black Hole Weaponry
Liberty Barrels
Les Baer
Hey guys, thanks for the info. This helps a lot! I don't know much about building an AR to tell you the truth, but after watching a youtube vid on how simple building the lower is, def not opposed to doing that and buying a complete upper. May not be oppposed to building the upper either. Idk, just need to learn a little more. Thanks for the welcome.
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I believe that Christensen Arms offers Grendel rifles:
http://christensenarms.com/
Drifter
LRRPF52 Wrote:There are also companies that are making .264 LBC rifles, uppers, and barrels, even though the Grendel chamber is SAAMI approved:
Black Hole Weaponry
Liberty Barrels
Les Baer
AR Performance
I had no idea there were Grendel clones. This complicates my decision making process. Why grendel?
mkjack Wrote:I had no idea there were Grendel clones. This complicates my decision making process. Why grendel?
the grendel chamber is saami approved so more manufacturers should be picking it up as far as ammo, barrels, etc. and from what ive read the grendel is more forgiving than most with a wider range of bullets, and i believe there are fewer problems overall w/the original grendel chamber.ie gendel factory ammo will definitely fit a grendel chamber. im sure some of the guys with more experience will speak up.
mkjack Wrote:I had no idea there were Grendel clones. This complicates my decision making process. Why grendel? This will either clarify or confuse things. Lots of variants out there.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...variations
Will a Grendel chamber fire all the variants as well?
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mkjack Wrote:Will a Grendel chamber fire all the variants as well?
As far as I know, there are no real variant versions of case dimensions or ammo. Everything on the ammo side of the equation is Grendel, with the exception of some 264 LBC stuff. LBC brass is made by Hornady, and is supposedly the same as Hornady's Grendel brass except for the headstamp. LBC ammo, available only direct from LBC, should work fine in Grendel chambers since the brass is the same. LBC dies are assumed to be the same as Grendel dies.
Basically, the term "variant" used in Grendel discussions is referring to chamber dimensions.
Drifter
Drifter Wrote:As far as I know, there are no real variant versions of case dimensions or ammo. Everything on the ammo side of the equation is Grendel, with the exception of some 264 LBC stuff. LBC brass is made by Hornady, and is supposedly the same as Hornady's Grendel brass except for the headstamp. LBC ammo, available only direct from LBC, should work fine in Grendel chambers since the brass is the same. LBC dies are assumed to be the same as Grendel dies.
Basically, the term "variant" used in Grendel discussions is referring to chamber dimensions.
And this is so newcomers can sell a "Grendel" upper without paying dues to AA? Does anyone have a link or thread for Grendel newbies?
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AA does not charge manufacturers for using the Grendel name or for selling Grendel uppers.
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mkjack Wrote:And this is so newcomers can sell a "Grendel" upper without paying dues to AA? Does anyone have a link or thread for Grendel newbies?
I think the 6.5 Grendel trademark has been released, the cartridge is now SAAMI approved, and any manufacturer can pursue production.
Previously, it was probably protected to prevent chamber and cartridge dimensions from getting distorted and changed, which might have been detrimental to the long-term success and survival of the cartridge. The "variants" were a way around the protection, but not sure that any of the variants have been tested to the degree that the Grendel has. Safest bet is the real 6.5 Grendel, but that's not to say that the others don't work.
Drifter
Drifter Wrote:I think the 6.5 Grendel trademark has been released, the cartridge is now SAAMI approved, and any manufacturer can pursue production.
Previously, it was probably protected to prevent chamber and cartridge dimensions from getting distorted and changed, which might have been detrimental to the long-term success and survival of the cartridge. The "variants" were a way around the protection, but not sure that any of the variants have been tested to the degree that the Grendel has. Safest bet is the real 6.5 Grendel, but that's not to say that the others don't work.
This! If you research the development of the two cartridges between the Grendel and the 6.8 SPC, you find that the 6.8 SPC chamber dimensions that were sent to SAAMI had a major error in them: an 80 degree shoulder into the rifling. While a lot of lies and disinformation were spread about the Grendel only being allowed with royalties, the other popular cartridge got SAAMI approval with a screwed-up, unsafe chamber, and manufacturers started cranking out guns with that chamber. A lot of effort had to be undertaken by the 6.8 manufacturers to alert everyone and ensure that a non-SAAMI chamber that actually is safe to shoot is produced.
Meanwhile, Alexander Arms patiently waited for Hornady to push SAAMI approval, which finally happened. This is just one of the reasons to protect your idea, primarily so that customers get a safe product. While the wait was going on, people throughout the industry disseminated lie upon lie about Bill Alexander's greed requiring royalties, trying to "protect" the cartridge from being made by anyone else, and other non-sensical claims that all turned out to be fabrications for whatever reasoning.
I actually believed most of the BS I had heard about the Grendel, until I researched it myself. What I learned at SHOT this year is that people are still operating under the impression that the lies about the Grendel are common industry knowledge, and this is among people who are in significant decision-making positions with the Freedom Group, various manufacturers, and so forth.
I don't know what motive there is to trash the Grendel, but they did a great job of spreading BS that people actually believe and hold true to this day. Never underestimate the power of repetitive propaganda.
Ok, so based on your expert opinions, where should I go from here. I'm not an expert in the least, so I could use all the help I can get. I wouldn't mind pairing a fully assembled lower to a fully assembled upper. I'm prepared to put the money(or work if necessary to assemble) to have the features that you would deem important, free floating, etc.? idk, you tell me. As of now, I wouldn't say I'm picky as to features. I like the skeleton stocks, as for a rail, a simple flat top will do. I'm thinking of adding a 2.5-10x40mm Nikon Monarch scope. I'm not concerned about a top of the line barrel. The rifle doesn't have to have "all the frills" but I do want to make sure I get any features that you guys would deem important or at least hear your personal opinions on features and brands. If you'd be so kind in outlining the steps I should take, I'd probably follow your advice closely. What brand, where to order, etc? What problems can you run into assembling an upper and lower from diff manufacturers? Edit: I like 20" barrels. Anything more may be overkill for what I'll use it for. Bottomline, I want a weapon from very reputable manufacturers that will hold up great and perform well.
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05-10-2012, 04:35 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2012, 04:38 AM by Drifter.)
Build or buy is a decision that you'll have to make. Building isn't difficult, but can sometimes require some tweaking and trouble-shooting after everything is put together and test-fired. Same is possible when buying something complete from a reputable source, but perhaps potential issues are reduced, in addition to possibly having support after the sale. I encourage people to build, but this assumes that they have the patience to research it and do it right, and are mindful that the first one might require a little extra effort to get it running right.
Factors to consider are intended purpose (to include accuracy needs / expectations), budget, and preferred timeline. In many cases, barrels and other parts are relatively scarce. Whether building or buying, if you want something by fall hunting seasons, it's time to get busy. Researching what's available, whether parts of complete uppers / lowers / rifles, might help your decision on whether to build or buy.
It's often said that the critical parts for an accurate AR-15 are the barrel, trigger, and scope. Everything else, for the most part, is user preference. A free-float handguard is certainly recommended, and there are some aspects of the build process that also contribute to an accurate rifle.
It's perfectly fine to buy or build a lower, and mate it to a different brand of upper that is bought or built.
You'll get plenty of advice and help on this forum, but you'll need to share more details (budget, timeline, etc) to get the most benefit.
All that being said, easiest and safest route might be to pick something out on Alexander Arms' website, then call to see how soon the item could be delivered. AA puts out a good product, and seems to offer excellent support if ever needed.
Drifter
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