S&B 124 grain Available

[Gringoloco]

Looks like SG Ammo has the S&B 124 grain in 600 and 20 round options as of 11 December https://www.sgammo.com/product/65-grende...mmo-sb65ga .
Has anyone shot any of this yet?

[KC_Joe]

No experience, but came across this last night and grabbed a few boxes. The Google-machine suggests it's of pretty good quality, we'll find out soon enough :o

[lazyengineer]

80 cents a shot for FMJ ball. Decent today I suppose, but gone are the days of 27cent ball (Wolf). I assume it will be much better shooting than Wolf Steel, and the brass is reloadable. Large primer reloadable; so good luck finding the primers, but there we go. I'm not a huge fan of the S&B FMJ bullet profile. It's a pretty tepid BC bullet. But if were out of ammo and needed some practice ammo - sure, I'd give it a go.

[m796rider]

80 cents a shot for FMJ ball. Decent today I suppose, but gone are the days of 27cent ball (Wolf). I assume it will be much better shooting than Wolf Steel, and the brass is reloadable. Large primer reloadable; so good luck finding the primers, but there we go. I'm not a huge fan of the S&B FMJ bullet profile. It's a pretty tepid BC bullet. But if were out of ammo and needed some practice ammo - sure, I'd give it a go.

The SGAmmo photo appears to show a small rifle primer case. Primer pocket looks identical to my Hornady cases, which of course are SRP.

[lazyengineer]

The SGAmmo photo appears to show a small rifle primer case. Primer pocket looks identical to my Hornady cases, which of course are SRP.

Oh, my bad.

Here's the photo



which looks large to my eye in the picture - but maybe it's just how zoomed in the photo is?

[Old Bob]

They're large primers. Here's a pic comparing S & B with Hornady/Frontier primers. S & B on the left ...

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[m796rider]

They're large primers. Here's a pic comparing S & B with Hornady/Frontier primers. S & B on the left ...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]20144[/ATTACH]

Thank you, I stand corrected.

[grayfox]

meh. 200's or #34's... or 250's, got 'em all. plus fed's and win's.

[LR1955]

Guys:

My experience with S@B PISTOL brass has been that the primer pockets are a bit small. Not sure about their rifle brass but when I see "cheap" Grendel ammo with reloadable brass I think Wolf which we would get a couple of shots out of before the large primer pockets got too large or the necks cracked. The bullet seems to have a tangent ogive -- maybe an eight -- which means it will probably shoot very well. Hard to say with cheap ammo though. I wouldn't expect super performance but would expect decent performance. I wonder about the primer pocket size though.

LR-55

[65Carcano]

Could S&B fit their 131 grain SP on a 6.5 Grendel or would it be too long? That would make for a cheap factory hunting load if so.

[lazyengineer]

It's the same bullet profile as their 140 grain 6.5 CM ammo, and I would expect similar performance. In my experience, it's blunt profile with poor BC. The 140 gr FMJ ammo will shoot decently well in a Ruger Precision Rifle 6.5Creedmoor. And absolutely terrible in an autoloader. For me, it was below mediocre in an AR10, and just terrible in an MDR.

If the plan is to run this through an AR15 platform, all I can do is say I hope they have improved things in relation to their 6.5 Creedmoor ammo. In addition, their brass is very brittle and stiff, in 6.5Creedmoor. And I have witnessed factory new ammo split right down the entire body length in a friends AR10. It ran well enough in my own, and his gun fired all other ammo fine. But I would not assume this brass has much stretch to it before cracking. It's my opinion that 6.5Grendel neck's are cut a little more loose in relation to other rounds, but then, that's the area where the brass should be annealed. Indeed, I've not seen S&B 6.5 CM brass ever neck split, in my own loads usage. I do like the uniformity and consistency of the S&B 6.5 CM brass, but in my experience S&B metalugrical specification and QC programs are spotty. I've had problems with S&B primers for metallurgical reasons, in settings where no one else' primers failed. And problems with S&B brass metallurgy, again, where no one else' failed.

What I don't have is any data at all on their 6.5 Grendel ammo, and look forward to reading posts from others showing brass holding up great, and showing pleasing group sizes. I won't be the first to buying it, to find out!

Hang on, I think I may have some performance data on that still...



here we go, here's an analysis I did of a spectrum of 6.5 creedmoor ammunition across 3 different rifles. It took me a while to come up with a condensed methodology to display PoI shift from ammo to ammo in the different rifles, as well as the relative accuracy (MOA) of each load, in that rifle. Here's the arrangement of the 3 rifles tested, started with a Ruger Precision Rifle

Here's the MDRx. Notice how WILDLY the PoI shifts with different ammo. Neat gun, but the trunion is just too weak... or something.

Of note, look how terrible the S&B ammo groups - it's the largest circle

Here's an AR10, same tests

Better, but the S&B is still one of the worst peformers, at about 2 MOA.

Here's a RugerPR in 6.5 Creedmoor

unsurprisingly performance overall (and PoI shift), is remarkably better than the autoloaders, but again, FWIW, the S&B was one of the worst performers.

Frankly, S&B's 6.5 GRENDEL ammo will likely only be one step above Wolf Steel, is my expectation for the Grendel loading. But I'm still glad they are making it, and it's an option.

[KC_Joe]

lazyengineer.....great write-up! I don't think I'm surprised by the POI shift between differing ammo, considering the variability in brand and projectile weight....however, the variability in accuracy between rifles is more than I expected. I realize every rifle is different, but I didn't expect the much swing in some cases.....maybe just the difference between a semiautomatic and bolt gun.

I just put together a Grendel, and am in the process of getting 200 rds through the system before I start load development. 1st 100 rounds were Frontier, 2nd 100 will be S&B.....not really concerned with accuracy for the exercise, but now that I've seen your data, I'm curious to see the differences between these two ammos.

Sounds like a good reason to hit the range this weekend!

[KC_Joe]

Made it to the range today. Shot a 20 rd group of Frontier and a 20 rd group of S&B. I saw nearly identical group sizes, no windage shift, and an elevation shift of about -3/4" (S&B lower than Frontier).

Everything functioned well, but S&B "felt" a little more spicy. I could have imagined it, but the recoil just seemed a little heavier.