Brand New PSA 20" 6.5 Barrel

[rickt300]

The last two PSA lowers I have bought were both losers. Very sloppy stocks, terrible triggers and on the 308 lower the bolt release sucked, the magazines were very loose when seated with lots of front to back wobble.

[Bonas]

Agree with VC2. I'd shoot it and keep it if it's a keeper.

However, just on the principle of the thing, I'd be kinda pissed if they just sent me back the original barrel with no changes. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining....

PSA test fired it, something the OP doesn't seem to have done yet.

OP, what kind of accuracy are you expecting from this barrel to consider it functioning correctly?

I say, shoot the upper. See how the barrel works. If it doesn't shoot reasonably well, then contact PSA again. This isn't a hand-lapped barrel chambered by a highly experienced machinist. It's rack grade at best. I think it's only reasonable for performance to be the measuring stick, not looks. If the barrel shoots good enough, you'll save yourself time and trouble sending it back for no reason. If the barrel doesn't shoot, you'll save yourself time and trouble by having documentation of its deficient performance. If nothing else, call them, tell them you're going to try it, and see what they say. After all, when you decided to save $300+ versus a top-end barrel, you had to give up something.

I'll also add stuff like this is why I only by barrels from well-regarded, reliable finishers if I'm expecting accuracy of a minute or better. Rack grade stuff is a false economy.

[rickt300]

PSA test fired it, something the OP doesn't seem to have done yet.

OP, what kind of accuracy are you expecting from this barrel to consider it functioning correctly?

I say, shoot the upper. See how the barrel works. If it doesn't shoot reasonably well, then contact PSA again. This isn't a hand-lapped barrel chambered by a highly experienced machinist. It's rack grade at best. I think it's only reasonable for performance to be the measuring stick, not looks. If the barrel shoots good enough, you'll save yourself time and trouble sending it back for no reason. If the barrel doesn't shoot, you'll save yourself time and trouble by having documentation of its deficient performance. If nothing else, call them, tell them you're going to try it, and see what they say. After all, when you decided to save $300+ versus a top-end barrel, you had to give up something.

I'll also add stuff like this is why I only by barrels from well-regarded, reliable finishers if I'm expecting accuracy of a minute or better. Rack grade stuff is a false economy.

I have bought many "rack grade" uppers that did better than MOA.

[Bonas]

I have bought many "rack grade" uppers that did better than MOA.

And many don't. That's the point. A rack grade barrel is a crap shoot. If you want to buy a cheap barrel because there's a chance it'll deliver consistent sub-minute performance, have at it. Sometimes I choose to buy a crap shoot. Other times, I don't. But I have realistic expectations of bargain bin barrels. Thus, my question about the OP's expectations for this barrel. I'm genuinely interested in what he thinks a $150 Grendel barrel should deliver.

[rickt300]

And many don't. That's the point. A rack grade barrel is a crap shoot. If you want to buy a cheap barrel because there's a chance it'll deliver consistent sub-minute performance, have at it. Sometimes I choose to buy a crap shoot. Other times, I don't. But I have realistic expectations of bargain bin barrels. Thus, my question about the OP's expectations for this barrel. I'm genuinely interested in what he thinks a $150 Grendel barrel should deliver.

I expect MOA. Even BearCreekArsenal barrels will often do better than MOA. The gamble is not as big as you seem to think. A friend just brought me several boxes containing AR10 parts, a PSA lower, BCA upper, Nikon scope and CMC trigger. The lower sucked but the upper put out a series of 3 shot groups averaging just under .7 MOA. This using Federal 168 gr. GMM.

[lazyengineer]

I expect MOA. Even BearCreekArsenal barrels will often do better than MOA. The gamble is not as big as you seem to think. A friend just brought me several boxes containing AR10 parts, a PSA lower, BCA upper, Nikon scope and CMC trigger. The lower sucked but the upper put out a series of 3 shot groups averaging just under .7 MOA. This using Federal 168 gr. GMM.

Here in 2023, metallurgy and machining practices are such that it's possible to get such a barrel, even for $150. Maybe. The counter to that, is the way to keep prices down is you don't spend a lot of time on each barrel - you can't. What I'm finding, is that means they rush the chambering. The don't bother to get it centered and aligned right, don't QC check it, and don't run it slow and carefully to assure a smooth uniform cut. They chuck up a chamber reamer that's still hot from the last BBL, in a rig who's barrings are hot and were last checked... someyear. Result - in a lot of cheap barrels, that are otherwise potential tack-drivers, they F'up the leade with an off-axis chamber, and your round begins its life crooked and off center. Some rounds in some barrels overcome that (a 90 TNT shoots MOA with charcoal gunpowder down a sewer pipe). Many do not. What I've learned with cheap barrels is the first thing you do is bore-scope the throat, before you even think of mounting it. If it's straight, good odds you've got a solid MOA shooter. And I'm old enough, that MOA was the goal - and a rare one, that took premium construction and care to feed, and you had to call over a High Master level shooter. Unlike today, that's for sure. So yea, a cheap barrel with a straight throat, is a good start to being an MOA barrel. OP's barrel? No.

I will say first hand, I picked up a 5.56 FAXON 16" Match GUNNER profile (5r 1/8 SS wylde); that shot terrible. I scoped it, found out the same thing - offcenter throat (this is VERY common), and sent it back. they sent me a replacement, I scoped it again - centered throat. Unlike PSA, they don't go 2 cycles of sending you the same one back, before actually replacing it. How's the replacement low cost- BBL? one of the best BBL's I've ever bought. Seriously - it's an air-light skinny front BBL that shoots MOA and holds zero even when it heats up. Difference? Centered throat. (also, as an Engineer, this IMHO is the one 5.56 BBL profile that has every single specification exactly optimized, from the profile cut, to the grove spec, to the twist rate, to the chamber - it's exactly what I'd spec as the perfect general purpose 5.56 16" BBL)

[Bonas]

Another knowledgeable poster on another forum describes buying a barrel as paying for a probability that it will shoot well. $450+ gets you a near certainty. $150 gets you a maybe. The fact that some cheap barrels shoot well, doesn't mean that all cheap barrels should shoot well. The $300 savings has to come from somewhere.

I bet that OP's barrel would shoot somewhere between 1 and 2 MOA, which I think is performance on par with the price. I think expecting 1 MOA or better from a $150 barrel is asking too much. Others, obviously, do not. Lazyengineer's analysis is likely spot on.

[TedBrewer5]

My 20” stainless didn’t impress with 123gr hornady black or 123 gr hornady bulk factory offerings. About 2” for both. She wanted to be a bit more pampered with handloads. Both Sierra pro hunter 120 gr pro hunter and Speer 90 gr TNT printed .75”. Nosler 129 gr Accubonds are 2” which is fine for my hunting distances. Still tinkering with seating depth on those and hoping I can shrink that group a bit.

[jkucukov]

Thanks for the feedback guy, I appreciate it. When you put it into perspective like that its hard to argue expectations in shooting 6.5 WPA. Cheap barrel pair up with cheap ammo will get me a musket type accuracy. But I have to agree with LazyEngineer, straight cut vs slightly crooked is a definite deduction from accuracy. I reached out to PSA last week and still haven't gotten a response on the next steps. Bonas, I like our analogy, perhaps 300 is better spent for a piece of mind then rolling the dice with what I'm starting to experience.

Bonas, to your earlier question, only PSA has fired the barrel after calming they have first replaced the barrel, they did not provide any documentation on the accuracy of the barrel or their findings (a bit upset about that). I personally have not fired the barrel yet to see what the accuracy is, but to my earlier point, shooting WPA is a long stretch in terms of expectation. This experience is making me resentful having to deal with PSA again, what I'm finding at this price point is people lie just to see what the customer is willing to tolerate (good for them).

[Bonas]

One of the best things I ever did building ARs was build one out of the cheapest parts I could find to see what would happen. I'm talking Delta Team Tactical, Radical Firearms, etc. The gun did not work. After much time spent trouble shooting, fiddling, and replacing the buffer spring, I got the thing working reasonably well. I learned a ton. I also stopped buying cheap parts. I still buy plenty of mid-level stuff, but that project ended my bottom fishing. Barrels, triggers, internals, and springs are very important for performance.

[rickt300]

Here in 2023, metallurgy and machining practices are such that it's possible to get such a barrel, even for $150. Maybe. The counter to that, is the way to keep prices down is you don't spend a lot of time on each barrel - you can't. What I'm finding, is that means they rush the chambering. The don't bother to get it centered and aligned right, don't QC check it, and don't run it slow and carefully to assure a smooth uniform cut. They chuck up a chamber reamer that's still hot from the last BBL, in a rig who's barrings are hot and were last checked... someyear. Result - in a lot of cheap barrels, that are otherwise potential tack-drivers, they F'up the leade with an off-axis chamber, and your round begins its life crooked and off center. Some rounds in some barrels overcome that (a 90 TNT shoots MOA with charcoal gunpowder down a sewer pipe). Many do not. What I've learned with cheap barrels is the first thing you do is bore-scope the throat, before you even think of mounting it. If it's straight, good odds you've got a solid MOA shooter. And I'm old enough, that MOA was the goal - and a rare one, that took premium construction and care to feed, and you had to call over a High Master level shooter. Unlike today, that's for sure. So yea, a cheap barrel with a straight throat, is a good start to being an MOA barrel. OP's barrel? No.

I will say first hand, I picked up a 5.56 FAXON 16" Match GUNNER profile (5r 1/8 SS wylde); that shot terrible. I scoped it, found out the same thing - offcenter throat (this is VERY common), and sent it back. they sent me a replacement, I scoped it again - centered throat. Unlike PSA, they don't go 2 cycles of sending you the same one back, before actually replacing it. How's the replacement low cost- BBL? one of the best BBL's I've ever bought. Seriously - it's an air-light skinny front BBL that shoots MOA and holds zero even when it heats up. Difference? Centered throat. (also, as an Engineer, this IMHO is the one 5.56 BBL profile that has every single specification exactly optimized, from the profile cut, to the grove spec, to the twist rate, to the chamber - it's exactly what I'd spec as the perfect general purpose 5.56 16" BBL)

Guess I am just lucky. I have also bought some expensive barrels that shot really well.

[WSAR15]

My question is a bit off subject, but I need a bore scope - what would you recommend?

[jkucukov]

My question is a bit off subject, but I need a bore scope - what would you recommend?

I have a Teslong 26" rigid rifle borescope, hooks up to either a phone, tablet or a computer.