Annealing?

[Geezy]

A lot of great information guys, thanks.
I’m shooting a LaRue Tactical and I’m only using it for hunting and a little target/steel shooting so I’m not needing to get too technical I guess.

LT1955, I am using Lee dies so I may need to see about getting some quality dies. Thanks for your insight.

I appreciate all of y’all’s detailed information, a lot of knowledge here for sure.

[SCJim]

My take on annealing is either do it every time or never do it. Either method works for me. What will get you into trouble with precision shooting is when you shoot with cases that have various numbers of reloads on them. On a precision bolt rifle at least. I shoot mostly F class mid and long range and did a few experiments a couple of years back and found that annealing always or never worked as far as flyers went. When we moved my cases got mixed up some with 5 reloads some with 10 plus when the reloading room was packed up. For about a year before the relocation I had stopped annealing and had noticed no problems. Then suddenly I began getting odd flyers vertically. I practice with 10 round groups at 300 + yards and would have a .5 MOA group get a flyer out in the 8 ring. I tried a couple of different experiments and found annealing stopped me getting flyers. Annealing works for me at least

On the science -

Quote from How to make it in Brass - Copper Development Association

https://sites.google.com/site/lagadoacad...-relieving

250-300°C or 482-572°F
stress relief - When cold worked brass is progressively heated, the first effect, at about 250°C, is for the internal stresses to be relieved. This prevents stress corrosion cracking subsequently occurring and also minimises the amount of distortion which may occur during machining. This low temperature heat treatment, which should be applied for 1?2 to 1 hour, is known as ‘stress-relief annealing’ and has little, if any, measurable effect on the mechanical properties of the material. The improved strength due to the cold working is therefore retained.

In order to relieve internal stresses without loss of properties a low-temperature anneal such as 1?2 to 1 hour at 250-300°C should be used, dependent on section size.

400°C or 752°F
annealing, softening - As the temperature is increased further, a rather more fundamental change occurs at about 400°C and above and the material starts to ‘anneal’ or soften with time at temperature. The strengthening effect of the cold working is progressively lost, until at about 500°C the alloy is in the fully annealed condition. Restoration of the cold worked properties can then only be achieved by further cold work.

500-550°C or 932-1022°F
full annealing - In order to fully soften most brasses, heat to 500-550°C for 1?2 to 1 hour at temperature, then either air cool or, especially for alpha alloys, ensure that excessive grain growth is prevented by a quench or rapid furnace cool.

550°C or 1022°F
flash annealing -Flash’ annealing can be carried out at higher temperatures for considerably shorter times, but care is needed to avoid excessive grain growth.

900-940 °C or 1652-1724 °F
melting point of brass

as you can see annealing involves both time and temperature. Using flame the best you can hope for is stress relief and a bit of softening. That is not a bad thing, I used flame annealing for many years and have some lapua .308 Palma brass going on 30 reloads now that were loaded with some darn hot loads. I still have over 90 from the original 100. For 5+ years I used the old plumbers torch, cordless drill and socket method in a dark room method. That brass will still give me less than 1 MOA 20 round groups at 800 yards plus. Then I switched to a Annealeeze. That worked fine except on short cases such as the 6BR and Grendel family you have to be careful abot melting the wheels. I recently switched to an AMP but other than convenience and speed I have noticed little or no differences in my groups or number of flyers.

Anyway that is just my 2 cents worth and as always YMMV

[Happy2Shoot]

Then I switched to a Annealeeze. That worked fine except on short cases such as the 6BR and Grendel family you have to be careful about melting the wheels.

I wrapped my 2nd set of wheels (melted the first) in "Flue Tape". Flue tape is thick aluminum foil with high heat stable adhesive. Aluminum reflects most of the heat, and prevents spot melting.

3M High Temperature Flue Tape, High Heat Sealing Tape up to 600 degrees

Also They have thinner wheels for the short cartridges.

[sundowner]

I have that smaller set of wheels works great .

[SCJim]

I have that smaller set of wheels works great .

I went through two sets of those short wheels before I broke down and ordered my AMP the day I ruined my second set. Where mine failed me was when I had more than 25 or 30 cases I had to do do 25 at a time or the little indent where the case sits would start to get hot from the annealed case and the the case would not drop and the wheel would jam when the next case dropped in causing total meltdown. Sometimes I would sit there with a bowl of ice cubes and cool off the indent area. Last time it happened I got PO'ed and just broke down and ordered the AMP. A move which cost me a good chunk of change but I do not regret. Like I said in my last post I could have accomplished the same thing by always keeping my cases on the same number of firings and never annealing. I do some light wildcatting like turning 7.62 x 39 and 6.5 Grendel into 6 ARC, LC .308 into .260 Rem, and I have a 30 Major ( 30 grendel) bench rifle so the AMP does come in handy

The Annealeeze never had a problem until I started doing the short stuff like Grendels and 6 BR and would not have had issues there if I were more patient and cooled the indent in the bottom wheel every 20 cases or so.

Edit - thinking about it a piece of that aluminum tape down in the indent would have prevented the case from melting to to the wheel. Oh well water under the bridge now

[Oso Polaris]

I have the Annealeez (Gen 1), which I have used predominantly on short cases using the small wheels. I have heated up the wheels a bit along the outside edge, but never to point of cases sticking or anything that severe. Once I started getting too much heat I modified my machine by (1) swapping out the torch for a pencil torch (smaller tighter flame) and (2) swapped out the attachment point for securing/directing the torch. Now, I can focus the flame where I want it and reduce amount of excess heat directed at the wheels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMewhkfPKc8&t=167s

Here is another solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fg_hKjdAsg

[SCJim]

I have the Annealeez (Gen 1), which I have used predominantly on short cases using the small wheels. I have heated up the wheels a bit along the outside edge, but never to point of cases sticking or anything that severe. Once I started getting too much heat I modified my machine by (1) swapping out the torch for a pencil torch (smaller tighter flame) and (2) swapped out the attachment point for securing/directing the torch. Now, I can focus the flame where I want it and reduce amount of excess heat directed at the wheels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMewhkfPKc8&t=167s

Here is another solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fg_hKjdAsg

I suppose I was not clear. It had nothing to do with directing the flame at the wheels . It was the heat of the case resting on the lower wheel when doing 100 or so in a session without allowing the wheels to cool every 25- 50 cases
It's not a anomaly, simply type this into any search engine annealeze wheels melting and see how many hits you get.Seems as if several people on some forums are making an aluminum wheel to prevent this. However as I pointed out, the aluminum tape someone else suggested applied to the indent in the lower wheel should prevent the hot case from sticking so no break would be needed and that would be a quick fix. I only wish I had thought of that before buying the AMP