05-05-2017, 02:35 PM (This post was last modified: 05-18-2017, 06:02 PM by Troutguide.)
Well the efforts of this forum to increase the awareness and adoption of the 65G AR is working. I started with a Howa Mini and love it I have always been a bolt fan and opposed semi-auto guns, but I have been thinking about multiple shots on hogs so the AR has gotten more of my attention lately. If DNS would stop posting youtube videos this wouldn't have happened, damn you DNS! Anyway then I come across this good deal on a group buy bolt and think what the heck I can get some parts eventually and build a hog gun so I try and buy 2. Sold out and I only get one, so what to do with he remaining cash, I already paid BFT? Buy a 12" GB barrel with it and some more cash. Well that shot my budget but before I even know what is happening I have gone and ordered almost everything to build a Light weight Hog hunting Pistol with the intention of eventually getting the forms for a SBR and a Can. I have searched for the cheapest quality parts I can get away with but it is still way more than I planed to spend. Damn you All!!!:mad: I was perfectly content until I stated reading this site!! Not to mention I still have to start reloading so I can make all of this work even better.
So here is the build list I hope it is going to all work together. I seriously know nothing about the AR except what I have read on this site and a few other google searches.
Faxon GB 12" Barrel
Lehigh Defense GB Bolt
Mag Tactical Ultra-Lightweight Magnesium Stripped AR-15 Lower Receiver - Premium Grade
AR15-A3 Stripped Upper Receiver, Mil Spec, W / Black Hard Anodized Finish - U.S. Commercial Contractor
Upper Receiver Parts Kit Complete W / Ejection Port Dust Cover Assembly and Forward Assist Assembly
AR-15 M4 Charging Handle Mil-Spec Quality
RightToBear AR15 Lightweight Carrier - Black Nitride (carrier only)
WMD Guns AR15 Nickel Boron NiB-X Cam Pin
Omega Mfg Firing Pin Retaining Pin Mil Spec AR15 M4 M16
Omega Mfg AR-15 M16 M4 Titanium Firing Pin 5.56 NATO .223
Tactical Superiority Mil Spec Quality Lower Parts Kit Lpk For Ar-15
RTB AR15/M4 REDUCED POWER Carbine Buffer Spring
PXTreme Adjustable Super Light Low-profile Steel Gas Block Mk1.5 - .750
Spikes Tactical Melonited Treated Black Mil Spec Gas Tube (Carbine)
KAK buffer tube and Brace
Pistol Buffer Tube Complete Kit Heavy Duty W/ End Plate, Foam Cover (I like options and needed the buffer)
10" Inch AIR LITE 7.4 oz Ultra Slim Keymod Free Float Handguard BLK
C-Products 6.5 Grendel Magazines - 10 Round
I still need:
Optics(will have to wait a while before I get anything good might get cheap dot sight for now?)
What else am I forgetting?
I am shooting for as light as I can get for the pistol, trying to make the system cycle as slow and light as I can with the intention of reducing recoil, felt and cycle derived, and going subsonic when I get the Can. From what I can determine this would require the light BCG, adjustable gas, light buffer spring, hand loads to suit. Why not I mean its not like I have ever fired an AR before, I'm just too dumb to know what can't be done. In any event I bet it will shoot a hog at 100yd with some Hornady 123s.
I would think you'd want a heavier spring to make up for the lightweight reciprocating parts. Buffer springs are relatively cheap so I guess you could always play around with a few. For a build like this I think the JP SCS would be right at home, but not so budget-friendly.
For lightweight rails I really like the Midwest Industries lightweight, but I know there are lighter out there. It seems like some of these lightweight parts are really overboard and are a waste of money (in my humble opinion). The most noticeable part as far as weight is the barrel.
Looking forward to seeing the build and wishing you the best of luck!
Thanks, to be honest I just ordered the spring bc it was on the same sale as another part and I heard it will help make subsonic work along with the adjustable block. I plan to order a standard carbine buffer system unless someone convinces me otherwise. I will look at your suggestions.
Interesting... subsonics create more backpressure through the gas port, which is why you want an adjustable block so you can tune that down. I'm not sure how a lighter spring helps with that - I assume so that you can turn it wayyy down. But with a lighter spring you have less force coming back forward to strip the next round off the top of the mag, run it up the feedramps, chamber it, and lock the bolt. As with nearly everything involving firearms operation, it is a give and take and you have to find a happy medium. I tend to stick to standard parts because they are proven, but I'll admit that adjustable gas blocks are fun to play with and the SCS has me tempted. I've also used an extra heavy buffer with success, but this is not really needed if you have an adjustable gas block.
Like I said I really have no idea how this will all work. i have lots more reading to do before I trust myself to assemble this thing and make it go bang bang. I looked at the scs and it is a bit out of my budget at the moment. I like the concept though.
People will use a full auto bolt carrier because it is heavier than a standard bolt carrier which will slow down the cycle. Same reason some people will use a H or H2 buffer as the heavier buffer tends to slow down the cycle especially on full auto weapons (some say to also reduce felt recoil). One reason 3 gun shooters use the low mass bolt carrier is to reduce reciprocating mass and reduce recoil in conjunction with a muzzle brake. An adjustable gas block is desireable if you intend on using a suppressor.
Maybe someone more knowlegeable than me will chime in as to whether a low mass bolt carrier has any advantage with a adjustable gas block or with a fixed gas block. I'd assume if a person used a low mass carrier to build the lightest weight AR-15 they could compensate for the light carrier weight with a different recoil spring and buffer.
This is the article that really got me interested in the concept. It shows both sides of the argument but Bill A seems to think it is viable but delicate, I dint mind that, this is for fun hog hunting and yotes.
I'm almost sorry about nabbing that other bolt before ya. :S but I wanted them too badly as I already have the two 12's and have been biting my nails hoping to get a job before they are gone, which I JUST made it. As I'm sure you read I think he posted there will be a third batch in a few more weeks. And I plan to get 4 more right off the bat. I got 6 of these to build.
Now to answer some of your questions.
*For my CH I plan to order more than 2 of the DSA Forged steel ones with darkened NTFE.
*I got a email a few days ago from primary arms that had CMMG LPK's minus trigger and grip for like $22 pretty decent deal to me.
*the BCM, ALG ACT, PSA upgraded trigger, and possibly the Anderson Arms S.S. hammer and trigger are all semi decent and cheap, I'll have to get back to you all on the quality of the Anderson's once I tune and install and try them. I recommend JP's ignition reliability springs for any hammer as they are heavier but reduce lock time. And obviously strike harder for better reliability. All are about $50-60, though Anderson's is $22
*I too am looking for a decent red dot to hold me over till I can get REAL glass these babies deserve. The primary arms 2.5x red dot with the ACSS ret. Looks pretty sweet for about $180 and the hold overs should work good with 6.5
*Alexander Arms has the trilobial firing pins for the BCG if you need one. That's seems like the best I've found. I got three field repair kits from PSA with firing pins and tons of other parts I needed for like $13ea.
*The JP Silent capture Spring is awesome. I've had one for years everyone who shoots mine loves it. It's amazing how much of a difference it seems to make. The regular buffer springs make AR's seem kinda cheap. Kinda like a toy sometimes. The JPSCS changes that completely!
*I think I'm pretty set on either the ALG hand guard, or the Troy Alpha rail.might end up buying one of each to try and selling the lesser of the two. Well see.
*DSA also sells buffer tube, spring, buffer, complete kits for $40 again NTFE DARKENED if you need one. Although I think there's probably better buffer tubes to have with the braces.
*I'm also getting either the B5 P23 grip or the new hogue 15° I feel the grips with less angle are more akin to the higher end bolt stocks with more vertical grips that are starting to trend more this direction as well. It's just more comfortable and natural.
Sounds like you already bought one but AIM surplus has some nice light BCG's one with TiNi coated for fairly cheap. As well as many MANY other options for good prices.
I'm going to have to check out the RTB one you got, and also the adj. Gas block as I am still undecided for those.
05-07-2017, 06:02 AM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2017, 06:06 AM by mateba.)
I'm excited to see how this build works out. I am also perusing a low mass operating system. I found my KAK configurable buffer kit at ar15discounts.com for $45 weighing 5.6-1.7oz and plan on using a Wolff reduced power action spring with it. I've seen another buffer and spring combo at taccom3g that is meant for LMOS that is 1.5oz for $35. http://kapspearguns.com/upgrades--options.html has a carbon fiber pistol grip for $15 but I could not get the owner to report a weight anymore specific than 1-2oz. But that is almost an oz less than an standard A2 at 2oz and he did say they are compatible with AR15s.
05-18-2017, 06:07 PM (This post was last modified: 09-18-2017, 01:50 PM by Troutguide.)
Okay I edited first post for new items ordered can someone look over this and let me know what else I may need to get this thing shooting? I hope I have it all now and am just waiting on a barrel bc I am running out of funds for a while. I am still under $600.
Faxon GB 12" Barrel
Lehigh Defense GB Bolt
Mag Tactical Ultra-Lightweight Magnesium Stripped AR-15 Lower Receiver - Premium Grade
AR15-A3 Stripped Upper Receiver, Mil Spec, W / Black Hard Anodized Finish - U.S. Commercial Contractor
Upper Receiver Parts Kit Complete W / Ejection Port Dust Cover Assembly and Forward Assist Assembly
AR-15 M4 Charging Handle Mil-Spec Quality
RightToBear AR15 Lightweight Carrier - Black Nitride (carrier only)
WMD Guns AR15 Nickel Boron NiB-X Cam Pin
Omega Mfg Firing Pin Retaining Pin Mil Spec AR15 M4 M16
Omega Mfg AR-15 M16 M4 Titanium Firing Pin 5.56 NATO .223
Tactical Superiority Mil Spec Quality Lower Parts Kit Lpk For Ar-15
JP reduced power trigger spring set/I bobbed hammer and polished FCG
RTB AR15/M4 REDUCED POWER Carbine Buffer Spring
PXTreme Adjustable Super Light Low-profile Steel Gas Block Mk1.5 - .750
Spikes Tactical Melonited Treated Black Mil Spec Gas Tube (Carbine)
KAK buffer tube and Brace
Pistol Buffer Tube Complete Kit Heavy Duty W/ End Plate, Foam Cover (I like options and needed the buffer)
10" Inch AIR LITE 7.4 oz Ultra Slim Keymod Free Float Handguard BLK with steel barrel nut
C-Products 6.5 Grendel Magazines - 10 Round X2
2 PIECE "ZERO RECOIL" MUZZLE BRAKE WITH STYLE #2 ( Half Knurled) SOUND DIRECTOR SLEEVE
05-18-2017, 07:31 PM (This post was last modified: 05-18-2017, 07:38 PM by Troutguide.)
Thanks BFT, the 10 rd will do until more funds become available. When those second round barrels gonna be here? I know you have been talking to Faxon. Also the bolts are complete just need fiering pin, retainer and cam pin to make them work in the stripped bolt right? AR virgin and you are the one that made me drop my panties with the group buy. I just couldn't resist your 12" barrel.
Link to trigger work for this build and the buffer work. Barrel should arrive today along with timing lock for break, some aeroshell, sling and scope mount. Going with cheap mount and an old 3x9 I pulled off the muzzleloader until I can afford "good" glass.
Thanks. i am trying to find some time to get it to a range, that will tell the tale. It don't mater how it looks if it don't work, hoping for the best. I am not worried about the barrel but the build is all an experiment on my part.
09-22-2017, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 09-22-2017, 09:17 PM by Troutguide.)
Muhahahaa. It's alive!!! Took it to the range today and it didn't blow up in my face. I started with the GB closed it didn't lock back so I opened it up one full turn and it stayed back so I closed it down to 1/4 turn and it didn't lock so just a half turn open and it ran great with Hornady 123sst and Wolf 100. I can't say where the brass landed as they use a screen to block flying brass. It did dent the necks upon hitting the deflector just like some say is normal. I already posted my best groups on the other build thread but here they are. The first is Wolf 100 and second is 123SST both 5 shots at 50yds, dumb range has 16"+ rule for the 100yd range. I will find a place to shoot at 100 or 200 and dial in the final scope settings. The SST group would have been superb if i hadn't pulled the one shot high. I didn't get to rapid fire(range rule) but a nice steady pace gave good results with both ammo. I will shoot better next time since I won't be flustered by the whole AR thing and not knowing if it would even cycle.
Just scored a great deal on a scope. Regularly $329.99 got it for $275.65 they must have only had one. This will go on my howa and the 3x9 Nikon will go this build.
I started with the GB closed it didn't lock back so I opened it up one full turn and it stayed back so I closed it down to 1/4 turn and it didn't lock so just a half turn open and it ran great with Hornady 123sst and Wolf 100. I can't say where the brass landed as they use a screen to block flying brass. It did dent the necks upon hitting the deflector just like some say is normal. I already posted my best groups on the other build thread but here they are. The first is Wolf 100 and second is 123SST both 5 shots at 50yds, dumb range has 16"+ rule for the 100yd range. I will find a place to shoot at 100 or 200 and dial in the final scope settings. The SST group would have been superb if i hadn't pulled the one shot high. I didn't get to rapid fire(range rule) but a nice steady pace gave good results with both ammo. I will shoot better next time since I won't be flustered by the whole AR thing and not knowing if it would even cycle.