+- 6.5 Grendel Forum (https://65grendel.com)
+-- Forum: 6.5 GRENDEL DISCUSSION FORUMS (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: 6.5 Grendel Build-It-Yourself & Custom Builds (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) (/showthread.php?tid=9428)
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - Keep The Change - 05-29-2015
So I have a 24" barrel that .750" diameter from gas block to threads.
1) Muzzle device: I'm thinking I want to just get a flash hider instead of a brake/comp. I don't want to increase the barrel whip of the long 24" with a comp.
What are some devices out there at this diameter?
2) Buffer Springs: I believe I'm going to put a JP SCS for my buffer and I plan on getting the spring kit as well. Should I get the standard weights or the tungsten.
Note: I have an extended length gas system on this barrel. Should I go with the standard instead of heavier tungsten being it won't be at pressures of a RLGS.?
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - Jakal - 05-29-2015
Anymore, due to technology; Breaks, Comps and Hiders are kinda combo'ed together (Yankee Hill's Phantom is an example Break/hider). I just built 2 Grendels and the last thing I need to put on is a Brake. Right now I just ordered 2 muzzle thread protectors from Lilja. Once I am ready, this is the one I am going for....
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?10090-Precision-Firearms-LMD-brake-wins-Third-place-out-of-35-contestants-in-Brake-Shootout
I won't mess with buffers or springs unless absolutely needed.
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - cory - 05-29-2015
Precision Firearms makes a great Flash Hider. I'd check them out. If you're looking for true flash concealment, I don't know how well PF's works. I've got one, but never tested it. The AAC Blackout is a very effective!
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - lead chucker - 05-29-2015
I think using a brake or flash hider is personal preference. I put a JP SCS tungsten in my SBR for my grendel and a 8" blkout and can't be happier with it. I also use one in my 16" blkout with a carbine gas system with sub's. I was worried it would be to heavy for sub's to cycle but it cycles great with sub's. If you want one I would go with the tungsten.
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - Klem - 05-29-2015
Putting anything on the end of a barrel is going to influence barrel whip. We have seen that in recent discussions on the Magnetospeed chronograph. A flash hider is just as likely to influence whip as a brake. The good news is changing whip may make your groups tighter, at least that is the theory behind barrel tuners.
A barrel tuner is a device that allows the shooter to control at what point the bullet exits the barrel during the elliptical path of whip. It is not universally agreed these things are worth the money and effort but the point being made is that adding weight to the front of the muzzle can actually work in your favour. Barrel Tuners allow the shooter to vary the position of the weight to supposedly find the sweet spot where the bullet exits perfectly. An example here;
![[Image: eddietuner.jpg]](http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/eddietuner.jpg)
Note how these guys put weights on the end of 30inch match barrels so arguably your 24" barrel is less prone to whip than the guys who are comfortable deliberately putting weight on the end. If your brake or hider does not need to be timed you can even use a few washers to see if that improves your groups. Bottom line, anything you put on the end is going to influence whip.
I have seen only one tuner in the flesh in 1,000yd F Class shooting. Big talking point on the range with people standing behind his 30" .308 while he shot. His scores did not change over the few weeks he used it so he stopped using it.
There is a muzzle break review on another thread which lists the relative recoil dampening of different brands. As for a flash eliminator, In civilian shooting I think you will get more utility out of a brake than a flash hider.
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - am4966 - 05-30-2015
If I was going to use a break/Flash Hider that didn't need to be used for can or could host a blast shield. I would use PFs LMD break, flash hider SEI Vortex G6A3 it's probably the best on the market.
FYI the LMD is made for precision shooting in mind, I also think it had a 11* crown at end of break.
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - cory - 05-30-2015
The Vortex in all honesty probably is the best performance wise. However, I would never give my money to business with practices such as theirs. Not to long ago they sued someone for comments made on a forum, if I remember correctly.
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - am4966 - 05-30-2015
Damn! Well I would bed to do some research about that. The Vortex is freaking amazing! Since it takes two to tango! I've always liked the look of the NOX I just don't know about its flash suppression capabilities. I'd probably go with a PWS FCS30 if it's true about Smith.
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - Klem - 05-30-2015
cory Wrote:I would never give my money to business with practices such as theirs. Not to long ago they sued someone for comments made on a forum.
Didn't know that. Went looking for info about it and this made me laugh;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdpzWfqvuds
Do you know the outcome of the court case?
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - Keep The Change - 06-02-2015
Klem Wrote:Putting anything on the end of a barrel is going to influence barrel whip. We have seen that in recent discussions on the Magnetospeed chronograph. A flash hider is just as likely to influence whip as a brake. The good news is changing whip may make your groups tighter, at least that is the theory behind barrel tuners.
A barrel tuner is a device that allows the shooter to control at what point the bullet exits the barrel during the elliptical path of whip. It is not universally agreed these things are worth the money and effort but the point being made is that adding weight to the front of the muzzle can actually work in your favour. Barrel Tuners allow the shooter to vary the position of the weight to supposedly find the sweet spot where the bullet exits perfectly. An example here;
Note how these guys put weights on the end of 30inch match barrels so arguably your 24" barrel is less prone to whip than the guys who are comfortable deliberately putting weight on the end. If your brake or hider does not need to be timed you can even use a few washers to see if that improves your groups. Bottom line, anything you put on the end is going to influence whip.
I have seen only one tuner in the flesh in 1,000yd F Class shooting. Big talking point on the range with people standing behind his 30" .308 while he shot. His scores did not change over the few weeks he used it so he stopped using it.
There is a muzzle break review on another thread which lists the relative recoil dampening of different brands. As for a flash eliminator, In civilian shooting I think you will get more utility out of a brake than a flash hider.
Thanks Klem for all the info. I have not seen a barrel tuner like that. I've seen some rubber dog chew toy looking things put mid barrel to minimize whip, but it looks goofy.
My thinking and I've read this elsewhere as well is that the brake is inducing some out of plane or maybe radial load on the barrel that will increase barrel whip action. Because you are changing the direction of the gas and sending it backward and outward, which my thinking is that this good aggravate the whipping action.
But in the end, whatever you have on the end you will likely have a lot of success by tuning your loads for the given set up, correct?
That will be project down the road for me till I get enough practice and get acclimated to distance shooting.
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - Keep The Change - 06-02-2015
am4966 Wrote:If I was going to use a break/Flash Hider that didn't need to be used for can or could host a blast shield. I would use PFs LMD break, flash hider SEI Vortex G6A3 it's probably the best on the market.
FYI the LMD is made for precision shooting in mind, I also think it had a 11* crown at end of break.
That is a good looking brake and I like those guys at PF. According to the linked article in the thread it is quite impressive.
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - Klem - 06-02-2015
Keep The Change Wrote:But in the end, whatever you have on the end you will likely have a lot of success by tuning your loads for the given set up, correct?
.
That tuner sure does look goofy doesn't it. The tuner I saw in action cost the owner (not me) a lot of effort and rounds downrange to get to the point that he didn't think he could make it work. It was a brass weight on a thread held in place by an Allen key set screw. He screwed it in and out over a period of time hoping to achieve the sweet spot. An interesting experiment for a heavy precision bolt gun, but probably not for an AR.
Agreed, if you accept the utility of your muzzle device is worth more than how it affects barrel whip then you can make peace with that. And the effect may be good or bad and probably almost negligible.
Questions about some parts (Muzzle, buffer) - Keep The Change - 06-02-2015
Crap, I guess I'll get one then.
I've just been debating the brake because the potential of accentuating the barrel whip on a 24" barrel and then it is a Grendel which isn't a cartridge that will beat you up, plus will it blast other nearby shooters at the range.