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+--- Thread: MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) (/showthread.php?tid=8883)
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - NugginFutz - 01-14-2015
WARNING: A bit graphic.
[video]http://youtu.be/xDwQ8DxsALA[/video]
Failure chain...
1. Person who brought it in for trade.
2. Person who took the weapon on trade.
3. Smith who checked weapon for function (if they even do that in this store).
4. Clerk who presented weapon for examination.
5. Officer who examined weapon while shopping it.
People need to be careful handling weapons - no matter the circumstances. We've all been told that there is "no such thing as an unloaded weapon", and here's why.
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - rabiddawg - 01-14-2015
Whew! Thank goodness no one else was injured.
My 79 year old dad (stroke victim) has in the last two years discharged two guns in the house just "looking" at em. He has finally agreed its time to sell them before he hurts someone.
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - Buster - 01-14-2015
The Four Basic Rules of Safe Gun Handling"
1. Treat every firearm as if it's loaded.
I was taught this at a very early age and got my ass beat the very first time I violated that rule.
I never violated it again....maybe that's a "Southern thing"..
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - rushmc1a - 01-14-2015
At least that cop only shot himself
https://news.vice.com/article/iowa-police-officer-accidentally-kills-woman-while-reportedly-trying-to-shoot-her-dog
"Iowa Police Officer Accidentally Kills Woman While Reportedly Trying to Shoot Her Dog"
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - LRRPF52 - 01-14-2015
His lawsuit is pretty loose at best.
Defense:
"Officer Smith, can you describe to me the firearms safety training you have received?"
"Officer Smith, have you ever conducted a range safety briefing in your 30 years of Law Enforcement?"
"Have you ever been trained to clear a handgun in your 30 years of LE duty?"
"Can you describe to me the procedures for rendering a semi-automatic handgun safe?"
"Is there are particular reason why you did not do that in this case?"
I was more concerned for the clerk and the other patron's safety.
The NRA is very specific about the order in which firearms safety rules are taught. The very first rule is:
ALWAYS keep a firearm pointed in a safe direction.
There are so many things that went wrong in this case, it's crazy, but is really a lack of discipline on several levels.
As a store clerk, you should always ensure the firearm is clear when you put the guns out before opening. You should always clear the firearm before handing it to a customer, and let the customer see you do this. Take the time to verbally explain the specific safety procedures you are following with the customer, especially a new customer, so that they might learn something as well.
Safe direction with finger alongside the slide
Magazine removed
Safe direction while retracting the slide
Visually inspect the feed source and the chamber in a precise, careful manner, and verbalize this.
While maintaining a safe direction, conspicuously look at people around the store and let the customer see you do this.
Then hand the firearm to the customer.
As a customer, repeat the exact same procedures described above, ensuring safe direction and the magazine is out, feed source and chamber are clear, check the area around you for other people. I personally don't like it when you carelessly sweep the muzzle all around the store, flagging me to my legs, face, or chest, and I will jump out of the way to avoid your carelessness.
This is a good example on so many fronts of how not to do it, but we need to take the time to emphasize how TO safely go about this scenario.
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - NugginFutz - 01-14-2015
Exactly!
I can tell you that my estimation of an LGS goes WAY down when I see the clerk behind the counter simply handing over a firearm to the potential buyer, utterly ignoring the above clearing procedure. It reflects the attitude of the owners and managers with respect to their customer's safety. The same goes for acquaintances who handle firearms in a casual way. I'm not interested in how comfortable you are around them.
It is not difficult at all to develop good habits - you only need to understand why you perform them. One must practice safe handling at all times - there are NEVER exceptions or special circumstances. As I've heard on innumerable occasions, "NEVER point the muzzle at anything you do not wish to kill or destroy". This officer will certainly have a lifetime reminder and, in my opinion, he got off fairly cheap.
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - rickOshay - 01-14-2015
SO lucky that the four individuals at the counter in the direction of the shot were not injured.
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - cory - 01-15-2015
Buster Wrote:The Four Basic Rules of Safe Gun Handling"
1. Treat every firearm as if it's loaded.
I was taught this at a very early age and got my ass beat the very first time I violated that rule.
I never violated it again....maybe that's a "Southern thing"..
Exactly that io=s your first and most important Weapons Safety Rule. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded. A Gun should always be cleared (racking the gun and seeing an empty chamber) when a gun is handed off and when it is received.
NF I'm with you. If I ever go into an LGS and see the clerk hand someone a gun without clearing it, I'll be leaving immediately and not coming back.
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - LRRPF52 - 01-15-2015
One thing they point out in NRA Instructor training is to Always point a gun in a safe direction as the first rule, because a lot of people don't know what "loaded" means, and there is no safe way for people without training to determine if the gun is loaded.
Even for someone who knows jack about firearms, they know what a safe direction is, and generally what isn't.
In this case, it was about complacency on several people's account, but the person ultimately with the firearm in their hands is the one who has control at that specific time. In this case, he chose to shoot his finger off, whether he did it consciously or not, since he never cleared the pistol, then pointed it at his own finger, and pulled the trigger.
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - JASmith - 01-15-2015
Nogginfutz pointed that a chain of failures was needed to make this happen.
That has also been my experience.
An observation is that these safety chains work so well that is is easy for even the best of us to become complacent. That's when things get dangerous.
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - cory - 01-15-2015
I've religiously followed the 5 Weapons Safety Rules since Parris Island.
1. Treat every Weapon as if it were loaded.
2. Never point any weapon at anything you do NOT intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger STRAIGHT and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep your weapon on SAFE until you are ready to fire.
5. Know your target and what lies beyond it.
I believe these 5 rules should be beaten into every gun owner and we should follow all of them religiously.
When I was going through a range orientation at a new range not long ago the owner said something about the weapons safety rules, I knew, but it never really dawned on me. (If that makes any since.)
The beauty of the first 4 Safety Rules is that they are redundant to themselves. You can violate 1 of the 4 rules and as long as you've followed the other 3, you'll still be safe. In most instance if you violate 2, you will still be fine.
This was an epic violation of all Weapons Safety Rules above.
MAJOR FAIL at LGS in KY (on several levels) - PredatorDown - 01-15-2015
Always VISUALLY check to make sure that the firearm is unloaded. My father is deputy County Attorney, and I've heard some pretty gnarly stories about unintentional discharges. One of the worst was a Sheriff's Deputy who racked the slide a few times on a pistol, but didn't visually clear the chamber. He was going to break it down to clean it, and when he pulled the trigger to release the slide a round that hadn't been picked up was fired. It went through the palm of the deputy's hand and into the upper thigh of a judge that was with him, barely missing his femoral artery.