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Loc-tite and gas block - Printable Version

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Loc-tite and gas block - johnjohn - 12-02-2014

Should loc-tite be utilized to secure the gas block to the barrel? I have screw type gas block. How much torque should I use to torque the screws?

Thanks


Loc-tite and gas block - LRRPF52 - 12-02-2014

You'll want to ensure your gas ports are lined up first. I use Red loc-tite to secure set screw gas blocks. Torque should not be crazy, like maybe 15-20 inch pounds, just enough to be snug. Do you have a dimpled or flattened barrel for the set screws?

When using Loc-tite, make sure it doesn't get inside the gas ports. To remove it, apply heat from a heat gun until you smell the Loc-tite going back to a liquid, and pull the block.


Loc-tite and gas block - Ridz - 12-02-2014

What's the procedure to ensure the loctite doesn't get into the gas port when using a clamp on gas block? What's the best way to check that none got into the port, and how do you get it out if some did get into the port?


Loc-tite and gas block - johnjohn - 12-03-2014

LRRPF52 - I have a Lilja AR740 barrel. It has a flattened barrel on the bottom side (opposite side of gas port). I was hesitant to use loc-tite just in case I get it in the gas port.

Ridz - very nice question. Hopefully someone can provide more info so we all can be better off.

Thanks


Loc-tite and gas block - Joseph5 - 12-03-2014

I put the lock tite in a U shape with the open end facing the muzzle. The bottom of the U is behind the gas port looking from chamber to muzzle so the gas block will not drag any loc time into the gas port when placed on the barrel. If you are really worried about the Loctite you can put a wax plug into the gas port on the barrel and the block and then after the Lactate has set/cured you can melt the wax out with a little heat.


Loc-tite and gas block - johnjohn - 12-03-2014

Joseph5 - that's a brilliant idea.

Is all of this done with Red loc-tite or will blue work just fine? I don't want to go buy red loc-tite when I already have blue laying around in my garage.


Loc-tite and gas block - babue - 12-03-2014

After I put the loctite on and install the block I run a patch into the barrel to the gas port area then put the straw on a can of spray carb cleaner and flush it through the gas block or gas tube and block. That will rinse out any loctite that gets into the port. I wipe out the barrel again after doing the flush.


Loc-tite and gas block - Klem - 12-04-2014

Loctite-ing gas blocks...Overkill in my opinion.

If it won't work without it something is unusually wrong.


Loc-tite and gas block - LRRPF52 - 12-04-2014

Hi-power smiths have been doing it for years and years. Across a fleet of samples, it has proven to increase accuracy as well for some reason. Also helps prevent gas leakage. The other way is to approach it with a mechanical seal if you can.


Loc-tite and gas block - Klem - 12-05-2014

LRRPF52 Wrote:Hi-power smiths have been doing it for years and years. Across a fleet of samples, it has proven to increase accuracy as well for some reason. Also helps prevent gas leakage. The other way is to approach it with a mechanical seal if you can.

Have they? First I've heard of it in 30 years ('and years').

My opinion is that you should use glue sparingly on AR's. If you are worried about a loose seal, get a tighter fitting block that taps on with a hammer or clamps. If it leaks slightly and the system still functions it's probably a blessing that you're not having to cope with that excess pressure at the receiver. If you think glue on blocks improves accuracy ('for some reason') then I have no counter argument for you here. That one is a non sequitur.

Sorry mate but I have to call it when I see it. I won't lose any sleep if you want to use glue on your block seal or advise others accordingly but the only glue on my guns are gas block screws and sometimes handguard screws.


Loc-tite and gas block - montana - 12-05-2014

Klem Wrote:Have they? First I've heard of it in 30 years ('and years').

My opinion is that you should use glue sparingly on AR's. If you are worried about a loose seal, get a tighter fitting block that taps on with a hammer or clamps. If it leaks slightly and the system still functions it's probably a blessing that you're not having to cope with that excess pressure at the receiver. If you think glue on blocks improves accuracy ('for some reason') then I have no counter argument for you here. That one is a non sequitur.

Sorry mate but I have to call it when I see it. I won't lose any sleep if you want to use glue on your block seal or advise others accordingly but the only glue on my guns are gas block screws and sometimes handguard screws.

I have never had to use any glue on my gas blocks to seal them. They have functioned perfectly with out it. That said I can't see how it would do any harm if it doesnt get into the port. Something to think about for us anal types,Smile I always used red loc-tite on my gas block screws. I wouldn't use blue loc-tite on my gas block screws because of the high heat being generated could render it useless.


Loc-tite and gas block - jurassic - 12-05-2014

I use green loctite on the gas tubes, I haven't had a gas block leak around the barrel yet.


Loc-tite and gas block - Klem - 12-05-2014

jurassic Wrote:I use green loctite on the gas tubes, I haven't had a gas block leak around the barrel yet.

How do you know they have never leaked? And my point is, so what if they do?

If you decide your rifle needs a heavy buffer then surely you don't need every pound of (over) pressure available. I agree, it can't hurt to do this...until you decide to change barrels or blocks using a blowtorch and hammer. And I accept the idea that leaking gas does not sit right with the type of person that frequents these forums; precise personalities with expensive precision rigs.

I can also understand a situation where you need all the gas you can get to be reliable, for example a 300Blackout with carbine-length gas tube. However in other systems why maximize the gas return, only to then mitigate it with heavy buffers and expensive adjustable blocks?


Loc-tite and gas block - lead chucker - 12-06-2014

Klem Wrote:How do you know they have never leaked? And my point is, so what if they do?

If you decide your rifle needs a heavy buffer then surely you don't need every pound of (over) pressure available. I agree, it can't hurt to do this...until you decide to change barrels or blocks using a blowtorch and hammer. And I accept the idea that leaking gas does not sit right with the type of person that frequents these forums; precise personalities with expensive precision rigs.

I can also understand a situation where you need all the gas you can get to be reliable, for example a 300Blackout with carbine-length gas tube. However in other systems why maximize the gas return, only to then mitigate it with heavy buffers and expensive adjustable blocks?

I agree it cant hurt but i have built a number of ARs from 556, 300blkout and grendel and have never used loctite on a gas block. Just made sure they are aligned properly and go.


Loc-tite and gas block - NugginFutz - 12-06-2014

lead chucker Wrote:I agree it cant hurt but i have built a number of ARs from 556, 300blkout and grendel and have never used loctite on a gas block. Just made sure they are aligned properly and go.

My fellings, as well. A good fitting gas block will sometimes leak for a while, until carbon forms a seal.


Loc-tite and gas block - LRRPF52 - 12-08-2014

Klem Wrote:Have they? First I've heard of it in 30 years ('and years').

My opinion is that you should use glue sparingly on AR's. If you are worried about a loose seal, get a tighter fitting block that taps on with a hammer or clamps. If it leaks slightly and the system still functions it's probably a blessing that you're not having to cope with that excess pressure at the receiver. If you think glue on blocks improves accuracy ('for some reason') then I have no counter argument for you here. That one is a non sequitur.

Sorry mate but I have to call it when I see it. I won't lose any sleep if you want to use glue on your block seal or advise others accordingly but the only glue on my guns are gas block screws and sometimes handguard screws.

AA did testing across a large fleet of rifles, and found that after Loc-titing the gas blocks, accuracy tightened up measurably. It's been addressed here before in detail. My initial guess was some type of resonant harmonics with the block, but it may be about maintaining a consistent gas seal as well. I know smiths that hand-fit them as you describe.

I like the idea of what Knight's is doing with their Mod 2 gas system, which is a mechanical seal. The benefits to a sealed gas block, and thus less leakage, is a smaller gas port can be used. Smaller ports help reduce erosion, which is a factor in maintaining a consistent gas pressure signature throughout the life of the rifle. A lot of this work has been done for the 16" 7.62x51 NATO carbines, as they have become more requested by end users, after going from 24", to 20" guns in the SASS or DM role.

Gas porting diameters have been driven by the reality of leakage in the conventional AR gas blocks, and the RDT&E Knight's has done is solid. They have good engineering staff, and the largest collection of Stoner samples in the world to refer to when looking at ways to improve the system. The thing that bothers me about leakage is that it can spiral out on you when looking at consistency, especially as the leaking gas erodes the path of least resistance between the block and journal, as well as the gas tube.

It also doesn't hurt to have the pressure sealed in the gas block and tube area, and let the BCG deal with it, since there are gas relief ports in the bolt carrier for the expansion chamber to vent when it needs to. I also find the relief port geometry used by the Dutch interesting, when looking at the Dutch ArmaLite AR10's. Compressed fluid dynamics and the geometry of the components can make big differences in how the gas behaves, when looking at laminar flow.


Loc-tite and gas block - NugginFutz - 12-09-2014

Ok - This is not to recant my stated feelings on the matter, but here is some real world data (with pictures!).

I recently assembled another table gun, a BHW 5.56 with a 22" Match Bull barrel. Ordinarily, I use clamp on style gas blocks, but due to this build's lightweight hand guard's configuration, I had to go with a lowpro setscrew gas block. I'd decided (this one time) to seal it with loctite because I'd heard good stuff about it here and on other forums. Didn't know what to expect, as I'd not done it before. Last night, I removed the hand guard to gain access to the barrel nut (checking other aspects of the build) and found this.

Gas blow by from gas tube - NOT gas block.
[Image: IMG_1069_zps59fb4390.jpg]

Removed block shows absence of gas blow by at gas port. [Image: IMG_1070_zpsd276d5bf.jpg]

The gas was escaping at both ends of the gas block at the tube, which I'd merely pinned in place, without any sealant.

I reapplied it, as I'd originally done.
[Image: IMG_1072_zps949b7c0e.jpg]

Reinstalled the block...
[Image: IMG_1073_zps2a6600dd.jpg]

I removed the excess, and buffed off the gas residue I'd forgotten to remove while I had the block off.

So, does it work? I think this would seem to indicate it does. Does it help with accuracy? I can't really say. Next post shows a group from the barrel.


Loc-tite and gas block - NugginFutz - 12-09-2014

Here is a group it shot over the weekend. The loctite obviously doesn't hurt accuracy.

[Image: Slide1_zps1e0a6b3e.jpg]


Loc-tite and gas block - montana - 12-09-2014

NugginFutz Wrote:Here is a group it shot over the weekend. The loctite obviously doesn't hurt accuracy.

[Image: Slide1_zps1e0a6b3e.jpg]

Nothing beats trial and error. Great summary , thanks for posting.


Loc-tite and gas block - jurassic - 12-11-2014

NugginFutz Wrote:Ok - This is not to recant my stated feelings on the matter, but here is some real world data (with pictures!).

I recently assembled another table gun, a BHW 5.56 with a 22" Match Bull barrel. Ordinarily, I use clamp on style gas blocks, but due to this build's lightweight hand guard's configuration, I had to go with a lowpro setscrew gas block. I'd decided (this one time) to seal it with loctite because I'd heard good stuff about it here and on other forums. Didn't know what to expect, as I'd not done it before. Last night, I removed the hand guard to gain access to the barrel nut (checking other aspects of the build) and found this.

Gas blow by from gas tube - NOT gas block.
[Image: IMG_1069_zps59fb4390.jpg]

Removed block shows absence of gas blow by at gas port. [Image: IMG_1070_zpsd276d5bf.jpg]

The gas was escaping at both ends of the gas block at the tube, which I'd merely pinned in place, without any sealant.

I reapplied it, as I'd originally done.
[Image: IMG_1072_zps949b7c0e.jpg]

Reinstalled the block...
[Image: IMG_1073_zps2a6600dd.jpg]

I removed the excess, and buffed off the gas residue I'd forgotten to remove while I had the block off.

So, does it work? I think this would seem to indicate it does. Does it help with accuracy? I can't really say. Next post shows a group from the barrel.

I saw the same thing when I removed my handguard to clean the rifle. That is why I used loctite on the tube and not the gas block itself. Also wouldn't a leak free gas system give you more consistent pressure and velocity, helping with consistency? I'm pretty sure I read about the green loctite from something posted by Bill on this forum.

Why didn't you remove and loctite the gas tube since that's where you have the leak?