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+--- Thread: North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) (/showthread.php?tid=8582)
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - Mountain Man - 11-14-2014
Just got her together last night about 2 AM, then I misplaced the new bolt and did not find it until this morning. Fired a successful 3 shot string of 123gr SST factory loads so everything appears to be functioning as designed.
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It's running a 18" Stoner BBL/Bolt combo with MLGS. Cut down front sight to convert it to a "low profile" gas block. Used a Rifle-Length free float tube to hide everything and cranked out a simple 2" long 6061 Muzzle Brake on the lathe to protect the muzzle threads.
An old 2-7x Redfield wide-view provides aim whilst I accumulate funds for the Vortex scope I've decided on. The Redfield is actually a wonderful scope and holds zero well on ARs but I want additional zoom.
Mine is the half snow camo'd gun in the vise (can you tell I salvaged parts from another gun?) I built the rear stock with an A2 Buffer Tube, some spare aluminum and a TIG welder. It's ugly but very light weight and the Length of pull is perfect for my particular anatomy.
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My father's 6.5G is in the Foreground with the Big Scope. He has a LMOS Carrier, Mid Length FF Tube, and adjustable gas tube. He is also running a Timney in this gun. It is also an 18" BBL
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Going to the range tomorrow to get my 200 yd zero with factory SST's. I need to create brass and based on prices I've seen it makes more sense for me to pick up 3 boxes of factory ammo every paycheck and convert them to brass, rather than buying new brass. I gotta fire-form them anyway right?!?
This rifle was primarily built to kill Gray wolves, Bobcats, Black Bears, Mule and White Tail Deer, and perhaps even light elk work next season. Most areas I'm hunting require at least 2-3 miles on foot, so the reduced weight of the 18" BBL is nice. I have 2 weeks of Deer season left and 1 un-punched tag. I have until April to burn 5 Wolf Tags. Hopefully this Rifle can do it's part and I can do mine. Thanks for looking.
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - Adam Lilja - 11-14-2014
Nice. Good luck with the wolves
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - am4966 - 11-14-2014
Awesome, I Iike the camo. Are you gonna do the whole rifle in it?
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - Slappy - 11-15-2014
Heck ya!! Will be waiting to see some pictures!?? BANG BANG!!
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - montana - 11-15-2014
Nice looking shooters and work bench, I like the custom stock
. Hope you fill your wolf tags and then some. Looking forward to your range results, thanks for posting.
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - danm - 11-15-2014
Nice rifles, where in ID are ya? I'm in the LC Valley (SE WA or NW ID) about the wolf killing? Well I studied them for years so I might have a slightly differing opinion but do still believe in some management...
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - montana - 11-15-2014
http://www.smokeapackaday.com/decals.html
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - Mountain Man - 11-15-2014
am4966 Wrote:Awesome, I Iike the camo. Are you gonna do the whole rifle in it?
Perhaps. Its a quick rattle job done with some camo vinyls and fishnets for when this rifle was setup as a 223 M4. Snow Camo is useful for atleast 4 months a year here but deer season falls right on the edge of snowy times. I'll probably do light tan grass-like vertical stripes over black or maybe FDE. A lot of the places Ive been setting up to hunt have been 3-4 yrd old clear-cuts that have some tall grass in them. Worst come to worst I can put a Tyvek sleeve over most of the gun for snow work (we throw out dozens everyday at work).
montana Wrote:Nice looking shooters and work bench, I like the custom stock
Thanks, the work bench is still being converted over from fishing season and soon will have a Grendel section dedicated. The stock works ok, whatever aluminum they used to build rifle buffer tubes does NOT like being welded. Had to apply tons of heat to get it to melt with 6061 aluminum and ended up having to file the inside of the tube for an hour to clear the buffer due to over penetration. If I could find 6061 buffer tubes I could really make some nice stuff, but no one will/can tell you what they are made of. Might be time to get a Die for rear receiver threads...
danm Wrote:Nice rifles, where in ID are ya? I'm in the LC Valley (SE WA or NW ID) about the wolf killing? Well I studied them for years so I might have a slightly differing opinion but do still believe in some management...
I'm somewhere in between Sandpoint and Bonner's Ferry. I think you are a few hours south of here. Did y'all get any of that snow that nailed Boise?
To be clear, I don't have a rabid hate for wolves like many here do. That said, I have never lost livestock to them or experienced their predation thinning more popular game specie's populations. I do however find hunting and killing them to be an extreme challenge. I've been out a half dozen times setting up in different areas on the same mountain with the predator call and have only glimpsed one. I had my 30-06 and he spotted me across a clear cut 250 yds away and was gone before I could even think about raising my rifle. This is why in 2013, ID Fish & Game sold over 44,000 wolf hunting tags, and 244 were filled. If I get one I'll be thrilled. They are pretty impressive animals though.
montana Wrote:http://www.smokeapackaday.com/decals.html
Copy that.
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - montana - 11-15-2014
My dis-like for wolves comes from my experience from once was a hunters paradise called Montana. Before the vermin were so rapidly proliferated I was always able to fill my elk and deer tags from my many hunting areas. Today all my favorite hunting areas have been decimated by wolves. Fish creek, 9 mile, Rye creek in the Bitterroot, Ovando, the Black foot, the Swan, Lobo mason mtn, etc. My friend who is an accomplished mountain lion hunter has had three of his dogs killed by wolves. When I worked in Idaho on the 300 road and in the Magruder crossing area all we saw were wolves. Another friend who owns horses has hunted the Fish Creek area past hole in the wall most of his life and has always tagged his elk since he was a boy, quit hunting because of the decimation of game by wolves. I have many rancher friends who shoot them on sight. My son works with the Fish Wildlife and parks and most of the older Wardens have nothing but contempt for wolves when asked in private.There was a reason we spent millions in the past eradicating them but I guess we are in a new era of thinking.
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - Mountain Man - 11-16-2014
Well the rifle shot just fine. I'm shooting about 1.625" @ 200 yds with an old scope that just isn't designed for this application. My shooting skills can always be improved and it was a balmy 22*F at the range yesterday.
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Factory 123 SST loads seemed accurate enough, now I just need to figure out how to make a 123 A-Max reload that shoots the same (or better). I'm starting out with 27 gr of TAC loaded to 2.250" and we'll see where that leads. Using rem 7.5 primers.
This gun is REALLY hard on brass. Hard feed ramp contact is putting vampire marks on neck/shoulder and ejection drama is putting size-able dents in the side of the case. I am going to install the Tubb Carrier weights and see if it helps as much as they claim it does with brass longevity.
Full length resizing was required to get the brass to easily chamber using a finger to push the bolt in and out without the buffer spring. I ended up resizing twice, the second time I ran the shell into the die until the shell holder made contact with the die which solved the chambering issue. My dummy round testing indicates that anything over 2.265" OAL (123gr A-Max) is touching the lands. This seems like a really short gap to jump (from 2.25" OAL) so now I'm concerned with pressure spikes. Any thoughts?
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - Tooreal - 11-16-2014
Montana Man,
Nice Build! I especially like the fact that You have the ability and Talent to make the stock and thread protector.. That is Awesome!!!
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - LRRPF52 - 11-17-2014
Yes, you need to full-length re-size for gas guns as a rule. The shoulder needs to be bumped back enough so that they will actually chamber as well.
What chamber do you have? If it's the compound throat, engagement of the first angle isn't going to spike pressures, since it's only .5 degrees. If you are close to be hard into the 1.5 degree angle of the lands, then you will need to work up from 10% below max loads, using no more than .3gr increments, to find where you are at, with a chronograph at the least. Looking at brass and primers won't tell you much about pressures, until you are way too far.
Do you have the Reloading Handbooks? Your questions and a lot more are covered in them.
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - Adam Lilja - 11-17-2014
montana Wrote:My dis-like for wolves comes from my experience from once was a hunters paradise called Montana. Before the vermin were so rapidly proliferated I was always able to fill my elk and deer tags from my many hunting areas. Today all my favorite hunting areas have been decimated by wolves. Fish creek, 9 mile, Rye creek in the Bitterroot, Ovando, the Black foot, the Swan, Lobo mason mtn, etc. My friend who is an accomplished mountain lion hunter has had three of his dogs killed by wolves. When I worked in Idaho on the 300 road and in the Magruder crossing area all we saw were wolves. Another friend who owns horses has hunted the Fish Creek area past hole in the wall most of his life and has always tagged his elk since he was a boy, quit hunting because of the decimation of game by wolves. I have many rancher friends who shoot them on sight. My son works with the Fish Wildlife and parks and most of the older Wardens have nothing but contempt for wolves when asked in private.There was a reason we spent millions in the past eradicating them but I guess we are in a new era of thinking.
+1
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - Mountain Man - 11-18-2014
LRRPF52 Wrote:Yes, you need to full-length re-size for gas guns as a rule. The shoulder needs to be bumped back enough so that they will actually chamber as well.
What chamber do you have? If it's the compound throat, engagement of the first angle isn't going to spike pressures, since it's only .5 degrees. If you are close to be hard into the 1.5 degree angle of the lands, then you will need to work up from 10% below max loads, using no more than .3gr increments, to find where you are at, with a chronograph at the least. Looking at brass and primers won't tell you much about pressures, until you are way too far.
Do you have the Reloading Handbooks? Your questions and a lot more are covered in them.
I bought and read Vol. 2 a couple times, it's just nice to hear this stuff confirmed by people who are currently working on the guns everyday. They are handy Manuals though, I'll order Vol. 1 when payday rolls around.
I'm not sure which chamber I have. It's an 18" 1-8" AR-Stoner BBL/Bolt combo bought about 2 years ago from Midway. I know there has been some dispute on these barrels around that time-frame but I haven't a clue which one I have.
It chambers resized brass effortlessly, the struggle comes when bullet is seated beyond 2.26". I think it may be engaging the lands at right around 2.255". It almost seems like a moot point because my AA mag won't allow much past that but I was just interested in hearing how tight other's OALs are.
The Grendel is the first gas gun I've had issues with just neck sizing. The .223 barrel that came out of the upper I built the 6.5G on would cycle fire formed and neck-sized reloads all day. Some of that brass got loaded 3-5 times with just neck sizing. The same with SKS and AK. I'm not flattening primers with these 7.62x39/5.56 reloads either, they are reasonable loads for general blasting. I had the mindset that if it worked with the 7.62x39, then it should work for the Grendel (Grendel's Father right?). I'm not real familiar with these steep shouldered rounds and their particular quirks, so finding that fire-formed brass would not fit back into the chamber it just came out of was a bit of a mystery to me. Everything 6.5G gets a full resize now.
So your suggestion is to compare velocities between my gun and known pressure/velocity/bullet combinations from other guns (in the reloading guide of course) to figure out my pressure? I've got a box of 123gr A-Max and a bunch of Nosler 140gr Blems from the 1960's-70's. I would assume I should use the A-Max starting loads (either CFE223, TAC, or IMR4895) and try to get a correlation from that. If I get to 2400 FPS I'm too hot right? Or should the cut-off be lower?
North Idaho Wolf Buster (My first 6.5G) - LRRPF52 - 11-18-2014
The chronograph is about the closest thing the working man can have access to that will give a loose indication of what pressures you are into, working from a baseline.
As long as your chamber is concentric to the bore, and the bore is concentric to the OD, and your threads are concentric, shoulders square, bolt engagement squared up, then you can have a very accurate barrel/rifle.
2400fps with an 18" barrel is very easy to do. Since your barrel likely has 5R rifling, it won't build pressure as fast, so the speeds will generally be slower for the same charge weights in a conventional rifling pattern. That also gives you a little wiggle room on the top end to gain back velocity. Just don't jam into the lands. An 18" barrel usually will allow 2500fps with 123gr pills.
I would be careful with the 140gr, making sure to study your engagement surface length, and compare it with other projectile data in the 140gr that is available, look at those start loads, and work from there.