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+--- Thread: Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) (/showthread.php?tid=7599)
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - NugginFutz - 03-25-2014
I've read several opinions on what constitutes the proper method for breaking in a barrel, and have never really seen how one method differed from another. It also occurred to me that break-in was usually reserved for something which needed further polishing of moving parts, in order to ensure that continued "high speed" use would not harm the product, such as a piston engine. Well, while looking up some related information, I came across this:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/how-to-break-in-a-barrel/
It is a condensation of the opinions of arguably one of the shooting world's best barrel makers and bench rest shooters.
To summarize, it is the late Gale McMillan's opinion that barrel break-in is good for nothing more that eroding a barrels useful shooting life. He further says that the first barrel maker he knew of that provided break-in instructions informed him that it amounted to a 10% increase in sales.
Further, it is clear that he abhors the use of any abrasive pastes to remove virtually anything from the bore, since wear cannot be adequately controlled without a lead lap.
Surprisingly, he mentioned his preference to brass / bronze brushes, even over nylon. I have always been under the impression that nylon was less abrasive than either SS or bronze phosphate brushes. Learn something new, every day, I guess.
One of the products he had recommended (bearing in mind that the source is now over 5 years old) was something called "Outers Foul Out". Sadly, I discovered that this is a discontinued product. Has anyone here used this? If so, have you found a suitable replacement?
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - waveslayer - 03-25-2014
I know that my barrel on my 308 and on my twin's 308 shoots better with it nice and dirty! When we clean them... we have to shoot a lot to get them back to where they should be.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - bwaites - 03-26-2014
I think the general consensus on the board is "clean less, shoot more". I only clean when I have a functional issue, ie. rounds won't chamber or extract, or accuracy begins to decrease. I have barrels that haven't been cleaned since last April, although they have been shot plenty.
And no, I don't believe in break-in. That's what the barrel maker does when he laps a barrel and what I pay for when I buy a high end barrel!
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - Kikn - 03-26-2014
I like the post on lilja's website. Cliff notes version....
Basically you want to shoot enough to get a good layer of carbon fouling while removing copper fouling. Essentially if you over clean your barrel you must go through the "break-in" procedure again to get a good layer of carbon fouling while removing the copper.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - Buster - 03-26-2014
bwaites Wrote:I think the general consensus on the board is "clean less, shoot more". I only clean when I have a functional issue, ie. rounds won't chamber or extract, or accuracy begins to decrease. I have barrels that haven't been cleaned since last April, although they have been shot plenty.
And no, I don't believe in break-in. That's what the barrel maker does when he laps a barrel and what I pay for when I buy a high end barrel!
I'm glad I read this thread.
I mostly shoot at a public range and talk to the AR shooters (as well as the FUDS) and their consensus has been the "dirtier" their AR is, the tighter it shoots. That has been my (non-scientific) findings as well.
See how it shoots at 100, 500 and then 1000 rounds....or if/when it malfunctions, clean it.
This philosophy has worked for me the past 3 years.
I "broke in" my Lilja barrel build last weekend; shot, swabbed it it with a patch with Butch's Bore Shine, swabbed it with a patch saturated with Kroil and then a dry patch, lather, rinse, repeat....20 times. I was glad when it was over,,,took almost 2 hours.
I didn't save the paper, but the cardboard back looked like this; 50 yards, GG&G iron sights...basically 1" MOA @ 50 yds.
![[Image: gbi_zpsc25c8bbe.jpg]](http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/td25x/Grendel/gbi_zpsc25c8bbe.jpg)
Talking about barrel break in; (3rd hand information), I had a guy tell me that worked for me, when he worked in an armory when he was in the service, whenever they replaced a barrel in an M4, they would load a 30 round mag, set the selector switch to "Pew Pew Pew" and dump the mag and then say, "Barrel is broken in".
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - ccso118 - 03-29-2014
Ok a couple questions. I had a benchrest guy tell me that if you leave carbon build up in your barrel that it would attract moisture and create a corrosion issue. First is there any truth to this and if it is true should i be running a patch with oil through the barrel after i shoot. lastly what is the best method to remove copper while leaving carbon
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - explorecaves - 03-29-2014
ccso118 Wrote:Ok a couple questions. I had a benchrest guy tell me that if you leave carbon build up in your barrel that it would attract moisture and create a corrosion issue. First is there any truth to this and if it is true should i be running a patch with oil through the barrel after i shoot. lastly what is the best method to remove copper while leaving carbon
This should answer your question regarding corrosive ammo use. http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/corrosive-ammunition/
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - nincomp - 03-29-2014
Wipe-Out foam is beloved by the benchrest crowd. Caution, it also dissolves bronze bore brushes.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/09/tech-tip-how-to-apply-wipe-out-from-the-breech/
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - Variable - 03-29-2014
NugginFutz Wrote:I've read several opinions on what constitutes the proper method for breaking in a barrel, and have never really seen how one method differed from another. It also occurred to me that break-in was usually reserved for something which needed further polishing of moving parts, in order to ensure that continued "high speed" use would not harm the product, such as a piston engine. Well, while looking up some related information, I came across this:I never do barrel "break ins" any more.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/how-to-break-in-a-barrel/
It is a condensation of the opinions of arguably one of the shooting world's best barrel makers and bench rest shooters.
To summarize, it is the late Gale McMillan's opinion that barrel break-in is good for nothing more that eroding a barrels useful shooting life. He further says that the first barrel maker he knew of that provided break-in instructions informed him that it amounted to a 10% increase in sales.
Further, it is clear that he abhors the use of any abrasive pastes to remove virtually anything from the bore, since wear cannot be adequately controlled without a lead lap.
Surprisingly, he mentioned his preference to brass / bronze brushes, even over nylon. I have always been under the impression that nylon was less abrasive than either SS or bronze phosphate brushes. Learn something new, every day, I guess.
One of the products he had recommended (bearing in mind that the source is now over 5 years old) was something called "Outers Foul Out". Sadly, I discovered that this is a discontinued product. Has anyone here used this? If so, have you found a suitable replacement?
Outer's Foul Out: It appears they discontinued them because of a lack of sales. If you still want, you can actually build one of those yourself with online directions, and can also make your own solutions.
I don't bother though, because I use the "bore foams" to great effect. I just spray them in and let them sit. They work great for lazy folks like myself.
You can source those from a number of manufacturers, including "Break Free" brand (at Walmart! 
), Gunslick, and Wipeout.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - montana - 03-29-2014
I have broken in 3 barrels that were premium barrels. I followed the manufacturers directions and have been very happy with the results. They were all lapped barrels but the barrel break in process resulted in barrels that seem immune to copper fouling. I thought barrel break in was redundant with hand lapped premium barrels till a friend and bench rest shooter explained to me the benefits of barrel break in when dealing with copper fouling. I dislike cleaning my barrels and breaking in my barrel allows me to shoot for a much longer time before I have to concern myself with copper fouling. When I need to clean my bore I run a few patches with Shooters choice and follow with a dry patch. I then run a patch with Sweets 7.62 copper remover. If you have copper fouling you will see it when using Sweets 7.62.
Using two premium barrels , break in only one barrel. Then shoot the same amount of ammo through them and then clean them. You will see a remarkable difference in the amount of time and effort required to rid the bores of copper fouling.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - 45r - 03-30-2014
Bench rest shooters will sometimes change out a barrel after only 5 to 7 hundred rounds.
They clean a lot and aggressively to stay competitive.
I clean and oil my barrel after any shooting session and wipe out the bore good before I shoot it again.
When a barrel won't shoot after being shot a lot I get another one.
Grendel barrels should last a long time since the pressure is lower than other AR rounds.
Brass,bullets,powder and primers cost more than a barrel.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - cst - 05-27-2014
Is it possible to "rebreak" in a barrel that has several hundred rounds if fouling is a problem??
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - Drifter - 05-27-2014
cst Wrote:Is it possible to "rebreak" in a barrel that has several hundred rounds if fouling is a problem??
Not sure, but some bullets are gonna lay down copper regardless. A bonded-core hunting bullet usually causes significantly more fouling than a match bullet.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - NugginFutz - 05-27-2014
cst Wrote:Is it possible to "rebreak" in a barrel that has several hundred rounds if fouling is a problem??
One of my best shooters needed to be re-broken in. (Actually, I doubt if it had even been broken in, in the first place) A CZ550 in .308, with a 26" barrel I picked up had some serious copper fouling. No matter how much I cleaned it, the patches would always come out with blue.
I finally hit it with some Tetra for 2 -3 cycles.Got the copper completely out, and did a semi-formal break in. Groups definitely improved, but the barrel still fouls - just not quite as severely as before.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - kmon - 02-09-2015
Have the Outers Foul Out, only break it out when there us severe copper fouling. I have 3 rifles it gets used on, and on some barrels of guns I have traded for or bought used just to easily get back to square 1. Most copper fouled barrel I have ever owned is a 264 Win Mag. After about 10 hours of cleaning I went and bought the Foul Out and it took 3 cycles to clean all copper from it. After a few fouling shots it shot groups just under an inch at 100 with factory ammo. Like someone else wrote you can find directions online to build your own and yes they work.
The next worst fouling gun in the safe is a Remington 700 Classic in 17 Rem. Accuracy drops off bad after 30 rounds, or at least it did until switching to what I see is a favorite powder for the Grendel, CFE223. After switching am to over 80 rounds and it is still shooting great. I use this gun to see how my shooting is when working up loads for other guns. If I do not shoot sun 1/4 inch center to center group with it then I am off.
I think most rifles shoot best with some fouling but at some point accuracy will degrade.
Agree with the one that said breakin usually makes cleaning easier. But with the foam cleaners and the Outers Foul Out available cleaning copper out is no big deal to me.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - lwminton - 02-09-2015
I have looked around a fair amount, but cannot find any explanation of what "break-in" does? Does it fill in or smooth out or straighten or what?
Does it assume there is something wrong with a new barrel that has to be fixed with a bullet?
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - bwaites - 02-09-2015
It assumes that there are tooling marks and other rough spots that need to be smoothed to reduced long term copper and powder fouling. This is why hand lapping and machine lapping were introduced. Todays barrels really don't need that much break in, and most of us use little or none and get great results.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - LRRPF52 - 02-09-2015
The Lilja bores are easily the smoothest I have ever seen in top-end rifle barrels. Bill Alexander also mentioned how superb their bores and chambers were finished, to the point that it would require optical instrumentation to detect any marks on the surface.
I'm having very good results with my Lilja barrel. PDS went through the recommended break-in procedure with his 22", because he comes from a benchrest background, whereas I just shoot mine. I've been getting .659" to 1.5" groups with my little lightweight barrel including shooter error, best 5rd group is at .984" at 100yds (.939 MOA). My best 3-rd group is .659" with 123gr SST factory ammo (.629 MOA). That's without shooting from a rest, just a lightweight little gun on a carpeted block at the range with a lightweight rear bag.
It stacks bullets on the same POI at 470yds on steel.
At the end of the day, as the shooter, I realize that I am the biggest variable in the accuracy equation. If I'm in the right mood, I can rapid fire a 5rd group into .6" at 100yds. If I'm not dialed in, the groups will open up to 1.2-1.5".
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - pds - 02-10-2015
The vast majority of benchrest shooters perform some form of a break-in procedure on new barrels before they are used in a match. They do it to control CU fowling. You would be surprised now much copper is left in a brand new barrel after the first shot fired through it.
pds
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - GregB. - 02-24-2015
I am no pro, nor a gunsmith, nor claim to know everything the is to know about barrels. I have really only been in to custom rifles and precision shooting for a few years, I learned a lot from a good buddy who is a wealth of knowledge and has some military sniper time under his belt. What he has told me is a mass produced rifle such as a good old remington 700 should be properly broke in for best performance. However your top notch custom barrels it is not as important due to aspects such as hand lapping (as mentioned already) and very precise manufacturing practices. Does this make sense? It is what I have been led to believe and makes sense to me?