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+--- Thread: Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. (/showthread.php?tid=7443)
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Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - Ludeconduct - 03-05-2014
It seems that the 6.8 loaders are using it with no issues and I can't find any info on it being used on Grendel. I cannot find the burn rate for it but from reloading sites info about it being faster or slower than another powder it seems to fall between a lot of the common powders that are used to load this round. From the posted 223 data (which is all they give on this powder) the manufacturer's data shows high speeds for relatively low charges with it. I called them and asked about any data for the 6.5 and they quickly told me there was no data for anything except 223.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - JASmith - 03-05-2014
Alliant shows loads for the .222, .223, 22-250, 30-30, and 7.62x39. Note that the bore capacities and operating pressures in this collection of cartridges spans that of the Grendel.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - Drifter - 03-05-2014
Alliant 1200R is a ball powder very similar to Reloder 10X, an extruded powder. 1200R reportedly meters better for progressive reloading.
Reloder 10X seems to be rarely used in the Grendel.
Haven't heard of anyone trying 1200R in the Grendel.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - Ludeconduct - 03-05-2014
It is a very good metering powder in a progressive setup. I have a good bit of this and due to lack of powder options I may have to start low and work up and see what it will do. It seems fast with relatively low charges on the 223 and is very dense so you would be hard to put enough to have a compressed load. Maybe this is the Unicorn powder I have been hunting.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - Ludeconduct - 03-05-2014
Ok I found the other calibers it is being used with on Alliant's site. I was looking with product description. It does seem to be fast for low charges though. Look at this 30-30 chart.
![[Image: 4EB0ACD0-6001-4CB6-9379-CC46F0306F8E.png]](http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/hatch2wenty2wo/media/4EB0ACD0-6001-4CB6-9379-CC46F0306F8E.png.html)
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - LR1955 - 03-05-2014
Ludeconduct Wrote:It is a very good metering powder in a progressive setup. I have a good bit of this and due to lack of powder options I may have to start low and work up and see what it will do. It seems fast with relatively low charges on the 223 and is very dense so you would be hard to put enough to have a compressed load. Maybe this is the Unicorn powder I have been hunting.
We thought Reloader 10X would be the 'Unicorn' powder as well. It is dangerous in the Grendel with bullets over about 85 grains.
The pressures will go up dramatically when you reduce the neck size and you are reducing the neck size significantly if you go from a 6.8 or .30 caliber down to a 6.5.
If you can't find this powder listed in any of the numerous loading manuals for the Grendel, you best stay away from it.
LR55
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - Ludeconduct - 03-05-2014
Makes sense. This is a new powder so I guess it's a wait and see game with alliant to see if they come out with a load for it.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - mseric - 03-07-2014
LR1955 Wrote:We thought Reloader 10X would be the 'Unicorn' powder as well. It is dangerous in the Grendel with bullets over about 85 grains.
The pressures will go up dramatically when you reduce the neck size and you are reducing the neck size significantly if you go from a 6.8 or .30 caliber down to a 6.5.
If you can't find this powder listed in any of the numerous loading manuals for the Grendel, you best stay away from it.
LR55
Hornady and Nosler both have published data for their 100gr bullets with 10X.
Pretty sure they would not publish load data if it was indeed "Dangerous".
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - LR1955 - 03-07-2014
mseric Wrote:Hornady and Nosler both have published data for their 100gr bullets with 10X.
Pretty sure they would not publish load data if it was indeed "Dangerous".
Here is my quote. "If you can't find this powder listed in any of the numerous loading manuals for the Grendel, you best stay away from it."
You found it listed so no problem.
My warning was for powders that are not listed. Like Reloader 10X when it first came out.
LR55
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - Ludeconduct - 03-07-2014
Alliant's response on this powder.
Charles, this powder will not work with the 6.5Grendal the bullets are too heavy for the case capacity.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - mseric - 03-08-2014
Ludeconduct Wrote:Alliant's response on this powder.
Charles, this powder will not work with the 6.5Grendal the bullets are too heavy for the case capacity.
Yet they have data for the 7.62 x 39 with 1200-R with 123gr bullets. That's a pretty poor excuse for an explanation of why this powder is not suited for the Grendel if you ask me.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - JASmith - 03-08-2014
The 90 gr 6.5 TNT has almost the same (0.183 vs 0.184) sectional density as the 123 gr 7.62x39 bullet. The case capacities are almost identical
The 170 gr 30-30 bullet has a greater (0.256 vs 0.246) sectional density than the 120 gr 6.5 mm bullet. The 30-30 has a skosh more than 44 gr H20 to the approx 35 gr for the Grendel.
In other words, while we respect caution and the suggestion to not use the powder in the Grendel may be sound advice, using faulty logic to support the blow-off tests patience.
It would be interesting to see how the fellow who made that statement responds to these comparisons. The fellow may have been clueless about the case volume of the Grendel and assumed it was .260 Rem or larger.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - Ludeconduct - 03-08-2014
Raises my curiousity. And why do you find powder companies skipping the 123 amax in their test ?
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - JASmith - 03-08-2014
In the case of Alliant, the 123 AMax is not one of theirs.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - ragedracer1977 - 03-08-2014
LR1955 Wrote:Here is my quote. "If you can't find this powder listed in any of the numerous loading manuals for the Grendel, you best stay away from it."
You found it listed so no problem.
My warning was for powders that are not listed. Like Reloader 10X when it first came out.
LR55
Actually you said "It is dangerous in the Grendel with bullets over about 85 grains."
That's a far cry from "if you can't find the powder listed..."
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - JASmith - 03-08-2014
ragedracer1977 Wrote:Actually you said "It is dangerous in the Grendel with bullets over about 85 grains."
That's a far cry from "if you can't find the powder listed..."
Truth time:
Full quote from LR 1955:
Quote:We thought Reloader 10X would be the 'Unicorn' powder as well. It is dangerous in the Grendel with bullets over about 85 grains.
The pressures will go up dramatically when you reduce the neck size and you are reducing the neck size significantly if you go from a 6.8 or .30 caliber down to a 6.5.
If you can't find this powder listed in any of the numerous loading manuals for the Grendel, you best stay away from it.
He said both, and the qualifier indicates the advice is cautionary with two parts. LR55's experience is extensive, and experienced reloaders err on the side of caution, especially with powders that tend to produce high velocities with low charge weights.
His second post acknowledged that reliable and credible information has surfaced that at least partially overrides his first cautionary comment.
General comment:
[INDENT]Quoting out of context can be dangerous and lead to untoward responses by a lot of folks. This forum is dedicated to honest exploration of ideas and experiences. It is OK to question, but make sure you have your facts straight before asking for clarification.
Above all, do not make disparaging remarks, especially when quoting out of context and making the earlier poster seem to be less than honest.[/INDENT]
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - ragedracer1977 - 03-08-2014
JASmith Wrote:Truth time:
Full quote from LR 1955:
He said both, and the qualifier indicates the advice is cautionary with two parts. LR55's experience is extensive, and experienced reloaders err on the side of caution, especially with powders that tend to produce high velocities with low charge weights.
His second post acknowledged that reliable and credible information has surfaced that at least partially overrides his first cautionary comment.
General comment:
[INDENT]Quoting out of context can be dangerous and lead to untoward responses by a lot of folks. This forum is dedicated to honest exploration of ideas and experiences. It is OK to question, but make sure you have your facts straight before asking for clarification.
Above all, do not make disparaging remarks, especially when quoting out of context and making the earlier poster seem to be less than honest.[/INDENT]
It wasn't taken out of context. He flat out said Reloader 10x was dangerous in the Grendel with bullets above 85 grains. There was no qualification.
The second part of the quote was referring to 1200.
They are completely separate statements.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - JASmith - 03-08-2014
So quibling with English syntax is an acceptable form of query? The term 'this' can be inferred to either powder and that is the way I interpreted the comments the first two times I read it. On a fourth and fifth reading, I can see that the term can be inferred to apply to just one powder. We all get sloppy with English from time to time.
The point is that one can raise questions about these issues. Gratuitous challenges are neither polite nor welcomed here.
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - mseric - 03-08-2014
JASmith Wrote:So quibling with English syntax is an acceptable form of query? The term 'this' can be inferred to either powder and that is the way I interpreted the comments the first two times I read it. On a fourth and fifth reading, I can see that the term can be inferred to apply to just one powder. We all get sloppy with English from time to time.
The point is that one can raise questions about these issues. Gratuitous challenges are neither polite nor welcomed here.
At the risk of being "not welcome here", I present you the following comments on Reloader 10X.
Quote: I tried RL-10X and found it dangerous to use with the Grendel and any weight bullet. Note I didn't say 'hot', I said 'dangerous'. Shortly after I mentioned this on the old forum, Alexander advised us strongly not to use RL-10X with the Grendel.
LR55
Quote: As an example, when Reloader 10X came out it appeared to be an extruded powder ideal for the Grendel. Some of us tired it, me included, and found it to be dangerous unless you were using bullets weighing under 90 grains and then used very light loads. Certaninly nothing coming close to a 90% case fill. Alexander confirmed this and cautioned us against using it although it appeared to be a good powder. I don't think Alexander ever figured out why it was dangerous in a Grendel case but it sure was. Anyone who had loaded more conventional cartridges like a .308 would have assumed that 10X ought to be great in the Grendel.
I think about the best extruded powder we have found for the Grendel is 8208 XBR.
LR1955
I could post more, but you get the point. No getting sloppy with the English Language here. It has been repeated many times.
My concern is who is correct? Hornady and Nosler or the Grendel forum?
Anyone used PP 1200-r to load Grendel? More inside. - JASmith - 03-08-2014
Mseric,
Thanks for doing the research!
My best guess -- Both are correct. Hornady and Nosler have access to pressure test equipment, and good communication with the powder manufacturers. As a result, they can do things that we can't with our tools.
We see a similar situation with LeverEvolution. I have been directly advised by Hodgdon ballisticians to not try the powder in chambers they haven't already posted loads for. The rational: the powder doesn't always behave the same going from one chamber to another and can develop high pressures much sooner than expected.