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+--- Thread: Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 (/showthread.php?tid=7409)
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Birdog - 02-27-2014
About a year ago I posted on this site about my Mini 30 that I had converted to a sweet shooting Grendel. I couldn't be happier with the results, and while I could go on and on raving about the Grendel load, and how much the hogs hate it, to do so would be preaching to the choir as those on this site already "understand the show".
I now find myself wanting a black gun. Since I'm virginal in this area I'm thinking on buying a complete gun in 5.56 before tackling a build and/or modification. But a build is in my future, and when I do so it's almost guaranteed that I'll be gravitating back toward Grendel.
From what I'm reading, I'm leaning toward a Colt 6920 SOCOM or an LMT MRP. Can anyone shed some insight, i.e. am I on the right track in gun selection and can these models easily accept the crossover as I develop my build skills with the black guns?
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Tedward - 02-27-2014
Well don't get a "Black Gun", get a MSR, and if you want to shoot 223/556 ammo, get a 223 Wylde. It shoots both bullets but with much more accuracy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Wylde
And then do a lot of reading, here is another link and the picture will make you want to shoot prone. http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-semi-auto-rifles/120166-real-world-accuracy-223-wylde-chamber-v-5-56-nato.html
Post #5 will get into better info.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - bwaites - 02-27-2014
Some of your decision will be based on use. Long range, plinking, varmint hunting?
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Birdog - 02-27-2014
Pigs, deer, an occasional turk or corn stealing coon. Mostly 80-150 yards at my heavily wooded east Texas lease but sometimes out to 250ish at friends ranch in south Texas.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Variable - 02-27-2014
Instead of a 6920 SOCOM, get a 6940 instead. Excellent value for the money. Open box, install Geiselle trigger, add quality optic of choice, then kill for cash and pleasure. Profit!
Here, it's even in stock: http://grabagun.com/colt-mfg-co-inc-le6940-carbine-5-56-16-1-20rd.html
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - PigOPs - 02-27-2014
I'd support a Texas Company and go LaRue
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Birdog - 02-27-2014
Tedward the MSR is intriguing as is the 223 Wylde, but finding ammo for the Grendel is challenging enough, and for this project I'm thinking the 5.56 AR-15 may be a better starting point for me. A big part of the project is to develop an intimate knowledge of the AR. But I want to start with a quality component that I can mix and match off of. I'm not "ignernt" but I tend to learn better with a hands on approach vs. reading about it. I'm thinking if I start with a quality stock gun, then I can ask questions on this and other forum and, in the words of Denzel in the movie Philadelphia, you guys can "explain it to me like I'm 4 years old".
That being said, after reading your links the genie's out of the bottle. I don't know if I can get it back in. The load is intriguing. Last thing I need right now is it to move off on a tangent, but at the very least you've enlightened me enough to give me a wandering eye, and for that I thank you.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Birdog - 02-27-2014
I like what I see in the 6940 in terms of floating barrel and accuracy but I'm reading on posts that the 6940 is less forgiving on barrel swaps and that you're stuck having to buy the complete upper with hand guard attached.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - ThatRandomGuy - 02-27-2014
Birdog Wrote:Tedward the MSR is intriguing as is the 223 Wylde, but finding ammo for the Grendel is challenging enough, and for this project I'm thinking the 5.56 AR-15 may be a better starting point for me.
You do know the 223 Wylde is not another caliber, just a chamber variant. The 223 Wylde and the 5.56 both can safely fire 5.56 and 223 Remington caliber rounds, the Wylde chamber is just designed to shoot 223 tighter than a 5.56 chambered gun. Hence it actually helps the ammo situation for you. As for MSR I think he just meant it's more agreeable to call the AR a modern sporting rifle than the media-despised "black rifle"
Now a quality Wylde gun is probably a little more expensive (I think the cheapest upper Precision Firearms for example makes is 900, while they have a complete starter 5.56 for 1300) and like Variable said, Colt gives good bang for your buck and you shouldn't need to swap barrels anytime soon. "Specialties" and variability are two things it seems you pay for, but there's so many options AR's seem like adult legos.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Variable - 02-27-2014
Birdog Wrote:I like what I see in the 6940 in terms of floating barrel and accuracy but I'm reading on posts that the 6940 is less forgiving on barrel swaps and that you're stuck having to buy the complete upper with hand guard attached.Why would you be swapping the barrel any time remotely soon? (Serious question?)
The handguard is "attached" because it is a monolithic upper. You get a monolithic Colt that is accurate and has a good chrome bore. 1 in 7" twist so you can shoot heavy bullets, great bolt, and folding sights already there. Ready to go with just a trigger and optics. Colt name and parts quality with lifetime resale value. High bang for your buck.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Birdog - 02-27-2014
Again, forgive my ignorance, but what happens when I want to swap over and shoot Grendel out of that 6940? Wouldn't there be more choices on a conventional AR-15 platform? I see me buying a stock gun, mixing and matching components on it, starting with a Grendel upper and learning as I go, until eventually I have a stand alone Grendel build and the old original parts back on the original gun. By then I'm thinking I'm off to the races on the knowledge of the AR-15. While I don't question the value of the 6940, won't I be limiting my options on my swap outs as I go along? Are the lowers and recievers interchangeable?
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Variable - 02-27-2014
Birdog Wrote:Again, forgive my ignorance, but what happens when I want to swap over and shoot Grendel out of that 6940? Wouldn't there be more choices on a conventional AR-15 platform? I see me buying a stock gun, mixing and matching components on it, starting with a Grendel upper and learning as I go, until eventually I have a stand alone Grendel build and the old original parts back on the original gun. By then I'm thinking I'm off to the races on the knowledge of the AR-15. While I don't question the value of the 6940, won't I be limiting my options on my swap outs as I go along? Are the lowers and recievers interchangeable?Aaahhhh.... My bad. I'm failing reading comprehension this morning (haven't been to bed yet!). Nevermind. If you are going to switch it over, skip the Colt. A 6940 is too nice to give it the frankengun treatment.
Disregard me and pick a cheaper regular AR. Unless you want to just build a seperate upper. In that case you could enjoy the 6940 unmolested, and then just drop your separately built Grendel upper on it when you want to shoot Grendel. The 6940 is a regular lower, and thus will work with Grendel uppers.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - montana - 02-27-2014
I HAVE TO WARN YOU, once you start down the AR build road there is no return. You will just build an upper but then you will notice how easy it is to build a separate lower and have a complete rifle. Then it will start with different calibers, barrel lengths, stocks, triggers, scopes, red dot sights ,hand guards, coatings, on and on. Then you will go on more hunting trips, shooting matches, and extended hours at the rifle range. Before you know it,... you are a.... "AR JUNKY"........... Welcome to the AR crack House.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Birdog - 02-27-2014
That's the plan, Baby! That's the plan. In the words of Huey Lewis, I want a new drug.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - cory - 02-27-2014
montana Wrote:I HAVE TO WARN YOU, once you start down the AR build road there is no return. You will just build an upper but then you will notice how easy it is to build a separate lower and have a complete rifle. Then it will start with different calibers, barrel lengths, stocks, triggers, scopes, red dot sights ,hand guards, coatings, on and on. Then you will go on more hunting trips, shooting matches, and extended hours at the rifle range. Before you know it,... you are a.... "AR JUNKY"........... Welcome to the AR crack House.
++++++1
It's said with tattoos they're very addictive. As soon as you finish your first one you start planning your next. Anybody with them knows what I'm talking about. With ARs it's far worse.
With a regular 5.56 AR, it's like going to your run of the mil tattoo parlor. As long as you pay attention, know what your doing and listen to experienced advice you'll get a decent one. With the 6.5 Grendel it's like you've gone to a true tattoo ARTIST. Now you've got something remarkable, the need for the next one is so much worse.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - lilharcher - 02-27-2014
Amen.....I've only been on the drug since Dec 2012 and now building my 9th and 10th complete rifle......my huge safe that I took delivery of in March 2013 is now obsolete......lol.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - bwaites - 02-27-2014
If I was just starting out, I'd buy this:
http://www.usamade-ar15parts.com/product-p/tgmc.htm
I played with one last night and was blown away. I previously thought the Hyperfire trigger was a gimmick, but actually pulling one and looking at it in the flesh changed my mind. I don't know if they let you swap buttstocks if you want something else, but that stock would be perfectly fine unless you have smaller statured people, (kids, women) who also need to shoot it and need a collapsible stock.
Count the parts you get stock:
Hyperfire trigger
Miculek compensator
Adjustable gas tube
Magpul MIAD grip
Nickel Boron bolt and bolt carrier group
Add those pieces up, then try to find a really cheap rifle and match their price!
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - PigOPs - 02-27-2014
bwaites Wrote:If I was just starting out, I'd buy this:
http://www.usamade-ar15parts.com/product-p/tgmc.htm
I played with one last night and was blown away. I previously thought the Hyperfire trigger was a gimmick, but actually pulling one and looking at it in the flesh changed my mind. I don't know if they let you swap buttstocks if you want something else, but that stock would be perfectly fine unless you have smaller statured people, (kids, women) who also need to shoot it and need a collapsible stock.
Count the parts you get stock:
Hyperfire trigger
Miculek compensator
Adjustable gas tube
Magpul MIAD grip
Nickel Boron bolt and bolt carrier group
Add those pieces up, then try to find a really cheap rifle and match their price!
Do you think the Hiperfire is suitable for hunting? I am looking to upgrade my trigger soon as it is a weak link in my system.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - LRRPF52 - 02-27-2014
Birdog. Sounds like you just need a nice little beater 16" carbine that is lightweight, reliable, and no frills. That will cover farm duty just fine.
You can do that on a budget quite nicely right now, as it is a buyer's market for AR15's and AR15 parts.
What you want to do is take advantage of that, and get quality for bargain prices. You just have to know where to get quality.
You want to start with a barrel and bolt combo, or Bolt Carrier Group. Work outwards from there. Get good forged receivers made from 7075 T6 aluminum, that has been hard-coat anodized with a deep type III process.
Then look at your gas block, recoil system, and fire control parts. Lastly, you will select the furniture you want, and tailor the gun to yourself. Here's where I would start:
Barrels:
AR Performance
Daniel Defense
Bravo Company
Spike's
Bolt Carrier Groups:
Same as above +
WMD Guns NiB
Underground Tactical 9310 AQ bolt
Receivers:
Aero Precision upper
Palmetto State Armory lower
Pretty much pick and choose a decent forged set
Gas block and tube:
Steel gas block, YHM if you don't get a standard FSB with the BCM or DD barrels
Melonite gas tube
Recoil system:
Depending on your barrel and gas system length, you can go carbine, H, H1, H2 buffer
Quality carbine recoil spring with correct steel type and paper trail
Forged 7075 T6 extension tube, Mil-spec
Fire Control:
Get a quality FCG, doesn't need to be fancy. J&T actually has a good set. DD, BCM, Spike's are other good sources
Then get the furniture you want. It makes sense to go with a lightweight free-float tube, rifle-length
Stocks and grips are innumerable.
Need Help Deciding On Stock AR-15 - Klem - 02-28-2014
I could say don't buy a stock AR if your long term goal is to turn it into a Ferrari but I do get where you're coming from.
You could just buy a cheapy second-hand Bushmaster or DPMS. Then sit in front of the telly with it cradled in your lap for a bit. Get familiar with it and shoot it at 100 to see how it groups with stock shop ammo.
Then when you're ready to start changing parts start with what will improve the gun the most. I'd go the barrel first. For your situation something like a Lilja M4 'Navy' profile (.223Wylde, 16", 1:8). You'll need some basic gunsmith tools to do this. Then the trigger group; something like an adjustable Giessele High-Speed National Match or even the SSA and E variant. Then put a decent short/medium-range hunting scope on it. Bottom end magnification below 3*, say a Vortex Viper 2.5-10*44 or the new Nightforce NXS Compact; 2.5-10*42 (more expensive). And while you're doing that be hand-loading rounds that match the harmonics of the barrel, and the targets you want to drop.
Everything else; grips, stocks, bolts, buffers, receivers can also be changed, and sure you'll feel good when you do this, but unlikely you'll see marked changes in group sizes.
Then start thinking Grendel. For that I'd keep the .223Wylde upper and just build another upper, using the same lower. Then buy a new scope because swapping the same scope between calibres is going to be a nightmare. And on it goes...
Is there something like 'AR Anonymous' out there? You know, like, "Hi, I'm Klem and I'm an addict." "Hi Klem" [other shooters sitting in a circle]