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+--- Thread: A R Perfomance (/showthread.php?tid=6683)
A R Perfomance - rangeshooter - 11-09-2013
I was looking for a spare bolt and saw that A R Perfomance has discontinued
6.5 Grendel products. So I guess that means no more Supper Bolts.
What was thier reason for doing that?
Is there a recomended bolt that's available?
A R Perfomance - LRRPF52 - 11-09-2013
Woohoo will have to answer that, as he's the owner of AR Performance.
We have a group order going on through the site for .136" recessed Grendel bolts made from 9000 series alloy steel that Precision Firearms has been collaborating on.
The demand for Grendel's has gotten the attention of manufacturers, and they seem to be responding.
A R Perfomance - Smith5361 - 11-09-2013
rangeshooter Wrote:I was looking for a spare bolt and saw that A R Perfomance has discontinuedI think it was posted on 6.8 forum and basicly he didn't have enough people wanting grendel stuff. He has a decent presence there and 6.8 seems to be his baby. Also i think like every other manufacture he is milking the AR craze and everybody wants a .223. The casual shooter or ordinary person just wants that super cool military rifle and don't know anything outside .223
6.5 Grendel products. So I guess that means no more Supper Bolts.
What was thier reason for doing that?
Is there a recomended bolt that's available?
A R Perfomance - Smith5361 - 11-09-2013
Found his actual post
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?43197-6-5G-264LBC-discontinued
"Exactly, they sent my 308 button back. I've talked to 3 other barrel producers, they are all running at max capacity. They aren't interested in doing any odd calibers because they can run 5.56 non stop. "
Mentions .308 but this applies to grendel as well
A R Perfomance - LRRPF52 - 11-09-2013
Quote:It's impossible to get 6.5 blanks made. Extractors, brass and ammo is also hard to find. There is only 1 manufacturer of mags. All of this together is going to kill the Grendel/264.
That was posted last month.
Impossible to get 6.5 blanks made?
Extractors are something that needs to be manufactured, just like everything else.
There are at least 3 manufacturers of mags, with another coming on line.
Nosler just was added to the list of Grendel brass manufacturers, which already includes Lapua, Hornady, and PPU. Nosler also bought SSA, who is one of the better sources of 6.8 SPC brass.
Manufacturers can run .224 barrels all they want, but that isn't going to change the fact that most people aren't going to hunt with .223 Remington if there are other options.
With the .260 Remington, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 6.5 Grendel, lots of 6.5mm blanks are being made, never mind the 6.5x47 Lapua, and the growing demand for 6.5mm bolt gun barrels.
If someone wants to focus on .277" bores, that's fine, but it doesn't mean 6.5mm is going away. 6.5mm has finally caught on in the US, and it is here to stay.
A R Perfomance - Smith5361 - 11-09-2013
LRRPF52 Wrote:That was posted last month.Yeah I didn't agree with everything that was said. I have a feeling that the 6.8 and the .223 is keeping him busy enough especially since he isn't doing .308 either. 6.8 is his "baby" and .223 will always be in demand since everyone wants/has one
Impossible to get 6.5 blanks made?
Extractors are something that needs to be manufactured, just like everything else.
There are at least 3 manufacturers of mags, with another coming on line.
Nosler just was added to the list of Grendel brass manufacturers, which already includes Lapua, Hornady, and PPU. Nosler also bought SSA, who is one of the better sources of 6.8 SPC brass.
Manufacturers can run .224 barrels all they want, but that isn't going to change the fact that most people aren't going to hunt with .223 Remington if there are other options.
With the .260 Remington, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 6.5 Grendel, lots of 6.5mm blanks are being made, never mind the 6.5x47 Lapua, and the growing demand for 6.5mm bolt gun barrels.
If someone wants to focus on .277" bores, that's fine, but it doesn't mean 6.5mm is going away. 6.5mm has finally caught on in the US, and it is here to stay.
A R Perfomance - nincomp - 11-09-2013
I know that the 6.8mm barrel blanks used by AR Performance are custom rifled with buttons supplied by AR Performance. I think that the same is true for its .264 and .308 barrels. This pretty much means that the barrel manufacturer has to stop production, retool with the supplied buttons, make a relatively small batch of custom barrels, then retool before going back in normal production. I suspect that the batch of .264 barrel blanks is much smaller than that of the 270's. My guess is that the barrel maker has decided that the smaller batch of barrel blanks is not worth the effort. The same would go for custom .308 barrel blanks.
The earlier info made no sense to me until I read the whole thread. Here is another post from the same 68forums thread quoted above:
"After a while I just have to give up on stuff that causes problems. I've been waiting a year on these 264s.
The next to fall off will be the 308s...maybe today."
A R Perfomance - LRRPF52 - 11-09-2013
Yes, it takes on new meaning if he is asking barrel-makers to run his specific button for the rifling, however, I still think he is referring to the Grendel overall because he includes the statements about mags and extractors. That takes it out of the realm of making Grendels on his end, and blanketing the entire market.
A R Perfomance - woohoo - 11-10-2013
The company that drills the blanks are running 5.56 and 6.8 blanks 3 shifts around the clock. They do not want to stop and retool to drill the blanks. I waited over a year for the 264 blanks and right at a year for the 308 blanks. I think the fact that the 308s were also 1.2 material also delayed production. It wasn't because no one was interested.
They use my 5R buttons on the 5.56 and 6.8 barrels and we get shipment about every week, doesn't seem to slow them down with those 2 calibers.
7.62x39 type extractors are also tough to find or get anyone to make.
Someone was right though, we are running wide open with 5.56 and 6.8 and don't really need to sell anything else. All of the wildcat cartridges are just to keep it from being boring.
We're looking to add a few people in 2014. A programmer, shop foreman and shop hand may change things a little. We'll see what happens with supplies this year.
A R Perfomance - woohoo - 11-10-2013
For those that don't believe, call up any barrel manufacturer and ask how long it would take to get 300-500 264 barrels.
A R Perfomance - Tedward - 11-10-2013
We believe...
A R Perfomance - Smith5361 - 11-10-2013
woohoo Wrote:For those that don't believe, call up any barrel manufacturer and ask how long it would take to get 300-500 264 barrels.
If my bolt blows apart (its one of your) am I pretty much SOL at this point?
A R Perfomance - woohoo - 11-10-2013
Smith5361 Wrote:If my bolt blows apart (its one of your) am I pretty much SOL at this point?Do your other bolts have warranty?
Warranty Statement
Based on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act, Alexander Arms® offers no expressed warranty on any of its products. However, in recognition of the obligations of implied warranty, Alexander Arms® will stand behind all of its products and will provide all reasonable support the for products it supplies. Any component that fails within the first year of service, subject to reasonable wear and tear, will be replaced free of charge for that part. This is limited and does not extend to careless handling, abuse, misuse, unauthorized adjustments or modifications, use of improper ammunition, excessive or unreasonable use, ordinary wear and tear, rust or corrosion, and barrel obstruction. Repairs are offered for the duration of the original purchase. This applies only to factory-built products.
We are sorry, but we do not offer a warranty or provide service on any third-party accessories that claim to be compatible with our products. If your part or accessory does not carry the ALEXANDER ARMS® trademarks on it, you should contact the manufacturer or seller of the product. We expressly disclaim all warranties including, but not limited to, implied warranties with respect to any third party products. For best results, purchase only ALEXANDER ARMS® licensed products.
Yeah, I can match that.
A R Perfomance - Smith5361 - 11-10-2013
woohoo Wrote:Do your other bolts have warranty?
Warranty Statement
Based on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act, Alexander Arms® offers no expressed warranty on any of its products. However, in recognition of the obligations of implied warranty, Alexander Arms® will stand behind all of its products and will provide all reasonable support the for products it supplies. Any component that fails within the first year of service, subject to reasonable wear and tear, will be replaced free of charge for that part. This is limited and does not extend to careless handling, abuse, misuse, unauthorized adjustments or modifications, use of improper ammunition, excessive or unreasonable use, ordinary wear and tear, rust or corrosion, and barrel obstruction. Repairs are offered for the duration of the original purchase. This applies only to factory-built products.
We are sorry, but we do not offer a warranty or provide service on any third-party accessories that claim to be compatible with our products. If your part or accessory does not carry the ALEXANDER ARMS® trademarks on it, you should contact the manufacturer or seller of the product. We expressly disclaim all warranties including, but not limited to, implied warranties with respect to any third party products. For best results, purchase only ALEXANDER ARMS® licensed products.
Yeah, I can match that.
Wow man such a friendly response.......... Basicly what I am asking is with your chamber that you designed will another 7.62x39 bolt work in place of yours? I have one of your 18 in barrels and super bolts. I doubt there will ever be an issue but again you never know
A R Perfomance - Tedward - 11-10-2013
I guess you need to know if the chamber was bored to Type I or Type II Bolt. The Head-space is the only difference and a 7.62x39 will not work in a Grendel (new) chamber. I think a while back there were different measurements and all kinds of things during the development. Not sure when your barrel was made or the chamber. So a go-nogo gauge might be a good thing to check with. $30 in stock at Brownells.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/headspace-gauges/rimless-rifle-shotgun-cartridge-headspace-gauges-prod25179.aspx?mc_id=12000&ch=csh&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c187_a_7c7313_a_7c184000038_d_184000037_d_11331&avs|Cartridge_1=BBH_6xzzx5%20Grendel
A R Perfomance - woohoo - 11-10-2013
Smith5361 Wrote:Wow man such a friendly response.......... Basicly what I am asking is with your chamber that you designed will another 7.62x39 bolt work in place of yours? I have one of your 18 in barrels and super bolts. I doubt there will ever be an issue but again you never know
I used .125 recess bolts so everyone could use a 7.62x39 bolt in a pinch.
A R Perfomance - Smith5361 - 11-10-2013
woohoo Wrote:I used .125 recess bolts so everyone could use a 7.62x39 bolt in a pinch.
Awesome, thanks
A R Perfomance - Tedward - 11-10-2013
woohoo Wrote:I used .125 recess bolts so everyone could use a 7.62x39 bolt in a pinch.
Good info, but my question then is if the rim of a Grendel Case it thicker than a 7.62x39, would it require you to modify the extractor to catch the outside edge of the case? It can't just be the depth of the head-space, it seems as if the distance from the bolt face to the edge of the extractor needs to be more. I don't have a 7.62x39 case to measure but the Grendel is measuring .054 with my calipers. So if the HS is .135-.054 that leaves .081 on the lip of the extractor. Or do you mill off .010 off the standard 7.62x39 extractor???
Does this make sense???
A R Perfomance - woohoo - 11-11-2013
Tedward Wrote:Good info, but my question then is if the rim of a Grendel Case it thicker than a 7.62x39, would it require you to modify the extractor to catch the outside edge of the case? It can't just be the depth of the head-space, it seems as if the distance from the bolt face to the edge of the extractor needs to be more. I don't have a 7.62x39 case to measure but the Grendel is measuring .054 with my calipers. So if the HS is .135-.054 that leaves .081 on the lip of the extractor. Or do you mill off .010 off the standard 7.62x39 extractor???Depends on who makes the extractors. The 7.62x39 has a wider groove than a 5.56.
Does this make sense???
A R Perfomance - nincomp - 11-11-2013
The 6.5 Grendel and the 7.62x39 have essentially the same rim thickness, according to SAAMI (0.058 - 0.01" vs 0.057 - 0.01").