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+--- Thread: Black Hole 264 LBC Build (/showthread.php?tid=386)
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - stibuzz - 04-29-2011
I just got my barrel and bolt in the mail today from Black Hole Weaponry and was able to slap it all together this evening. It weighs 11lbs with all the equipment on it. I will be going to the shooting range tomorrow!
BHW .264lbc 18" rifle length barrel
Jard 1.5lb Two-stage Trigger
JP V-TAC Handguard
Magpul PRS Stock
Ergo Grip
B.AD. Ambidextrous Safety Selector
Y/M Bolt Carrier
Mega Side Charge Upper
Harris 1A2-LM Bipod
![[Image: 100_1249-1.jpg]](http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w105/Stibuzzin/100_1249-1.jpg)
![[Image: 100_1246-2.jpg]](http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w105/Stibuzzin/100_1246-2.jpg)
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - Selph Arms LLC - 04-30-2011
looks good!!!! how do you like the side charging handle setup?
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - stibuzz - 04-30-2011
Being a south paw makes it fun to shoot. I put about 40 rounds downrange today. I need to swap out one of my other buffers for a lighter one. It was pretty windy, and I shot 3/5 on a 6" gong at 400m. My next step it to get better glass for it.
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - McCoy - 05-23-2011
What does your barrel have stamped on it as far as caliber and twist rate?
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - stibuzz - 05-24-2011
It has a 1x9 twist rate and is a .264lbc which is the same as the 6.5 grendel with some throat angle differences and not the pricey trademarked Grendel name through AA but shoots the same ammo.
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - sloan - 05-24-2011
PRicey trade marked grendel ehh, whats the name on this site?I still thinkall these grendel haters ,to get there own site,They could call it bastard grendel site, you could call it stollen grendel site .up to you...
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - pinzgauer - 05-24-2011
stibuzz Wrote:It has a 1x9 twist rate and is a .264lbc which is the same as the 6.5 grendel with some throat angle differences and not the pricey trademarked Grendel name through AA but shoots the same ammo.
Don't get the "pricey trademarked Grendel" comment, as the cheapest BHW barrel is $265 and does not appear to include the bolt (another $75?).
The AA starting point is $260 with bolt.
Not saying the AA is better, it's probably a Shaw SS barrel, known quantity. And the BHW would be 3 land poly, not sure if that is clearly better or not.
But the idea that trademarked barrels are more expensive is not born out when you actually go try to buy one.
There is apparently a AA royalty that impacts pricing, but based on comparing 6.8 SPC to Grendel for the same mfgs, it's around $50-75 for barrels just based on comparing retail prices. So why aren't non-licensed barrels cheaper?? Looks to me like they are pocketing any money they would have paid for royalty.
In fact, I've not found a CSS or 264LBC barrel that was less expensive than an equivalent Grendel barrel. You can argue quality, many things. But based on my experience, you won't save money going non-licensed. Hopefully there are exceptions out there where the savings on not paying the license is passed on to the shooter, but I've not seen them.
And there is more than one dimension to quality.... if you look at just postings here and in the old forum, you'll find most of the folks dealing with oddball functionality issues (chamber, bolts, etc) are on non-licensed rifles/barrels. Not all, but most, certainly over the last 12 months that's been the case.
Not defending AA as much as just wondering where the savings went for choosing not to license?
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - toolsofthetrade - 05-24-2011
Nice. Looking rifle, what kind of mount is the scope in?
Hope to have my BHW rifle up running next week.
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - stibuzz - 05-25-2011
I went with BHW because they are one of the very few companies regardless of trademarked names or not that makes an 18" rifle length barrel.
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - kamrr4437 - 05-25-2011
Looks like a wilson combat scope mount maybe?
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - bwaites - 05-25-2011
There is no trademark fee for licensed Grendel manufacturers.
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - stibuzz - 05-25-2011
It's a Weaver scope mount
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - pinzgauer - 05-25-2011
bwaites Wrote:There is no trademark fee for licensed Grendel manufacturers.
No royalty or other fee for rifle/barrel production? Interesting.... that means either it's demand driving up pricing, or additional mfg costs
Poked around a bit, some mfg's charge more for the same rifle in Grendel/clone, others do not:
- LBC- Same price for 264LBC vs other cals. Used to be a $200 premium for Grendel for same rifle compared to 5.56
- SAOD- $30 premium for 6.5CSS for same barrel ($430)
- M1 Sales- $50 premium for 6.5 Sporter over similar calibers
SAOD's uplift could be from having a grendel specific bolt.
M1 comes with no bolt, so their surcharge appears to be the least justified.
On the Licensed front:
- JT is about $135 more for Grendel for same rifle in 5.56. 6.8 is about $50 less than grendel, from memory. And shaw 4140 grendel Barrel/Bolt is roughly same cost as SS AA equiv.
- Satern charges about $80 more for same barrel in Grendel than 300 AAC, though some of that could be bolt costs. They have other grendel cut rifle barrels on closeout as well as Liberty button rifled. Just a hair cheaper than AA's price for similar.
- Midway (AR Stoner) was about $50 more for Grendel over 6.8 SPC
But here's the kicker.... for a rack grade, basic Grendel/clone barrel, only Liberty was less expensive than AA, and that's only once on closeout. M1 Barrel is pretty cheap, but once you buy their bolt it's not.
Point being- You can debate quality, business practices, etc. But based on my quick & non-exhaustive checking, to build a basic rack grade Grendel you almost have to pay more to use a non-AA barrel!!
Once you get into premium barrels all bet's are off as there is more variance in all their barrel pricing, not just Grendel. And since the premium barrels quickly climb into the $500 range, the variance in pricing is a smaller percentage of the total cost.
Black Hole 264 LBC Build - steel89 - 05-25-2011
That is one awsome build, all you are missing is a 'warped, muzzle brake.