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+--- Thread: 2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" (/showthread.php?tid=3210)
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - kbarnes12 - 07-03-2012
I took my new Grendel out to shoot for the first time this evening and encountered failure to feed problems.
Here is my setup. 20" Alexander Arms barrel with rifle length gas system and bolt, Kies Nickel Boron bcg, Syrac adjustable gas block, Alexander Arms upper receiver, BCM Gunfighter charging handle Rugio lower receiver with Del-tron lpk and a Magpul MOE carbine stock and buffer and spring. The magazine is a new Grendel mag from http://www.44mag.com
I was shooting Nosler 120gr reloads using 27.5gr of H335 and 7.5 Remington primers and loaded them to 2.230"
The rounds would pick up from the magazine fine using the charging handle, shoot fine and the brass would eject nicely, the bolt would close fine, but when I pulled the trigger for the next shot it went "click" instead of "bang". Obviously the next round would not be picked up from the magazine. It did not matter which side of the magazine the round came from.
Has anyone here had a similar problem and found an easy fix (ok even a not so easy fix) for it.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - stokesrj - 07-03-2012
if it is failing to pick up the second round from the magazine it could be that the bolt is not being driven far enough back. This could be a lubrication issue or it could be that the adjustable gas block needs to be opened up some.
Bob
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - kbarnes12 - 07-03-2012
Thanks for the response Bob.
Maybe I was not clear. The second round is not being picked up from the magazine. The bolt is fully shutting on an empty chamber.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - ricsmall - 07-03-2012
I think stokes is right, sounds like the gas block needs to be opened up some. Being a 20", you shouldnt be overgassed. Either way, fool around with the gas block and see if that helps.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - kamrr4437 - 07-03-2012
Before you do that try to bend the feed lips up on the front part of you magazine so that the rounds sit higher in the mag and more angled upward more toward the chamber. Mine was doing something similar. It would shoot fine and throw a shell out fine but sometimes would not chamber a round. Or if you dont feel comfortable with altering the feed lips it doesnt take much really i would try another mag.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - kbarnes12 - 07-03-2012
Thank you gentlemen (and ladies?)
This is my first AR build and my objective tonight was to make sure it shot and now I guess I need to fine tune it.
I will try bending the lips a bit and open up the gas block a bit.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - bobke - 07-03-2012
As Stokes and others have suggested, I'd go with the lowest hanging fruit first and try lubing bolt and carrier thoroughly with Slip 2000, frog lube or good quality light oil-some even use Mobil 1. Next try to progressively open adjustable gas block in 1/4 turn increments till you get a round to eject and feed next properly. What weight buffer and spring are you using? If you're unfamiliar with AR's, I'd leave feed lips alone til you've resolved first two protocols-you might just as easily create an issue as resolve one. There is a wealth of wisdom to draw from here and advice if freely given. The "search" function is very useful, as we've all had issues requiring guidance, at some point or another. Post up your results.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - skyfish - 07-03-2012
I agree with above, don't bend the mag lips until you rule out the other the gas and lube issues. I usually run an AR rather wet, more so when new. Make sure your not under gassed first. Try loading one round in mag and firing. If bolt is not locked back, stays in open possition, need to open gas block. Also, double check you are using Grendel mags with blue follower. Giving details of internals of rifle may help, or take pics.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - kbarnes12 - 07-03-2012
Ok ixnay on the lip bending for now.
I had the BCG dripping wet with Rem Oil right before I went out to shoot. I did load just one round to start and the bolt did not lock open. So is this sounding more like a gas problem (the wife says I have a gas problem, but I think she means something different)? Yes genuine Grendel marked mags with blue follower.
On another forum some one has suggested trying an H2 buffer and even has generously volunteered to lend me one. I think I will take him up on the offer just to see if it helps.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - Whelenon - 07-03-2012
I agree with my fellow Horde members, in a semi-auto, an empty chamber after the first shot normally means short stroking as others have said. So use a liberal amount of lubrication and/or open up your adjustable gas block. Also, bobke touched on it, what recoil buffer do you have? Normally for the Grendel it needs to be heavier than a 223s but maybe a heavier buffer is causing short stroking. Apparently, the bolt is picking up the first round so the magazine would be the last thing I'd look at.
I would suggest that when making changes(lubrication, gas block adjustment, recoil buffer, tweaking the mag ears) only make one change at a time. That way you pin point the problem. If you make two or more changes, say lubrication and gas block adjustment, if the problem is solved you don't know which change was effective.
Good luck
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - mongoosesnipe - 07-03-2012
With adjustable gas blocks if you are tuning to a particular load you you want to open the gas block until the bolt locks on an empty mag after firing a round then I like to give it a tiny bit more for insurance of reliability so it does not need to be readjusted to keep up with temperature changes for the most part colder temps resulting lower pressures warm temps higher pressures when it's cold out and your tinning you gas block locking back the bolt consistently is all you wil need if it's cold when your setting up I like to give it an extra 1/8 to 1/4 turn depending on the gun
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - rasp65 - 07-03-2012
The instructions I got with the JP adjustable gas block said to put 1 round in the mag, fire and see if the bolt locks back. If not open the gas valve until it locks back on an empty mag. Leave the feed lips alone you have not determined that to be a problem. The last thing you need is to make problems for your self. If you use an H2 buffer you will need more gas. According to AA they found the ideal buffer weight to be 5.36 oz. closer to the H3 I believe.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - ricsmall - 07-03-2012
kbarnes12 Wrote:Ok ixnay on the lip bending for now.
I had the BCG dripping wet with Rem Oil right before I went out to shoot. I did load just one round to start and the bolt did not lock open. So is this sounding more like a gas problem (the wife says I have a gas problem, but I think she means something different)? Yes genuine Grendel marked mags with blue follower.
On another forum some one has suggested trying an H2 buffer and even has generously volunteered to lend me one. I think I will take him up on the offer just to see if it helps.
Yep. definitely gas block first.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - sneaky one - 07-04-2012
Rasper- the h-2 did the trick in my gun- w/ stock spring-== WOW! Could you post up that data you sent a while back--you have it from AA -about the gas issue per bbl length, and( You wondering-- Why You installed an adj block// if not at all needed- hmmmm?????)) Many would like that data,- Time to fess it up, Bobcat. Hey, you saved me a pain=no gain. Thanks Bob.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - rasp65 - 07-05-2012
Well Sneaky I installed the adjustable because at the time thats what everyone said to do. I thought about putting one on my 223 but it worked fine without it. Here is the quote from Bill Alexander "Within the Grendel models the only unit I would regard as over gassed is the 16" Tactical. The 10.5", 18" and 20" are slightly under while the 24" and 14.5" are about perfect. We are currently correcting the 16" with the removal of the 90 gr TNT ammunition and the replacement of the 100 Berger HPBT." Don't loose it this time Dan put it in a safe place.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - sneaky one - 07-06-2012
Thanks bob- it's in my rifle--forever! Gang-try one out, it's awesome! Bob, we know the story of- the lemmings...-ha-ha! Thanks to you I saved myself a pita, about the gas block idiocy== BTW,, thanks for posting the data you sent-as always, you are a good voice of reasoning-thanks again Rasper. You da man- we like our cool temps!!!! It's 105 outside=I'm in a sauna.....help.
2nd shot "click" instead of "bang" - rasp65 - 07-06-2012
Sneaky When I took the back off my computer I found some little hooks in there so I decided to hang any important info on my "info hangars". If you take your computer apart you will see them. Sometimes you have to take out the mother board and look underneath it. Don't worry about where the wires go when you put it back together they put a lot of extras in there just to f#*K with your head. Oh yea just cut any wires that get in your way. Or get Junior to do it.