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Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - WVB4 - 12-31-2023
Im currently trying to decide between the Howa and Ruger 6.5 Grendel bolt guns. Ive read about the Ruger mag issues, but Im wondering how widespread the issue really is. I have Elander and ASC mags for my Grendel AR currently.
I will be using this rifle as a fun bench gun but also huntin deer and hogs. Any advice and personal experience you guys can provide would be appreciated.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - grayfox - 12-31-2023
I have both. Matter of fact, I've had both 2 times each. Took me a while to really make up my mind, lol. I settled on howa.
On the forum here you will hear love it/hate it stories for each one, the howa and ruger. I'll tell mine.
Both of them come with tupperware stocks, so in either case you will need to upgrade that. But both models have 2-3 options or more to choose from, so that's a wash between the 2.
The ruger mag issue, from my experience I could not get it to feed reliably for all the bullet types I use, from 90 gr up to the 129's, with trying lots of different mags. 1 or 2 bullets, mainly the 123's, would feed if, and it's a big IF, you cycle the bolt fast and smartly - if I let up ever so little smack! no feed. The problem usually is the bullet will hit the forend of the barrel below the feed ramps, on that vertical spot of barrel-end surface. No amount of fiddling, jiggering, tape or mag swaps would do away with this issue. For me it was a fatal flaw, so I got rid of them. Some guys say they don't encounter that, all I can say is I'm happy for them, but I had enough of it.
For the howa, its mags always fed and do feed (I still have one of these) flawlessly. Lots of guys complain about them being plastic, but they have never been an issue for me. I'm not going to war and I don't crawl any more through brush or swamps, so they work fine in my situations. The mag catch/release on older models was much too easy to hit and drop your mag. Howa has fixed this in the latest models, as mine is fine for that. A little too stiff if you ask me but I can live with that (there are also after-mkt fixes if you don't like that mag release). The one big drawback for the howa is the bottom "metal" which is really plastic, and the forward (or back one? I forget but you will encounter this) action screw-hole can and will break on you if you try to torque it down. So you either go for an mdt chassis (which I do and love them), or get an after-market bottom real-metal magwell/trigger guard, from DIP products, Jefferson outdoors or Oregun-smithing... those work very well. Jefferson and maybe the other guys also offer an internal mag-style bottom so you can go that route also. I had the DIP one and it was great.
Trigger-wise, both are acceptable, I found myself lightening them both up to my liking. Or you can leave them stock as-is. Ruger is a blade/2-stage and howa is its "single" hact trigger. As part of my barrel upgrade I also put in the timney adjustable (really for howa 1500) and it works great in the mdt chassis. It does need some trigger guard room so in original stock IDK if it works or not.
Barrel-wise, both shoot pretty well, they are rack-grade so might be a bit picky on loads and stuff, but I could get them both to do the job. I did upgrade my howa barrel to a Preferred Barrel one (it's a howage-style savage-like barrel nut so you can do it yourself), 22". And I'm real happy with it.
Ruger has a 22" medium barrel, threaded. Howa's medium barrel is 20" threaded. I like threaded b/c I use a muzzle brake/suppressor so they both can do the job there. Ruger has a slight edge due to 2" more barrel length, which gives you a shot at maybe the next higher MV-node. But they both are capable of shooting/hunting farther than I could go, so both were fine.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - Harpoon1 - 12-31-2023
WVB4 Wrote:Im currently trying to decide between the Howa and Ruger 6.5 Grendel bolt guns. Ive read about the Ruger mag issues, but Im wondering how widespread the issue really is. I have Elander and ASC mags for my Grendel AR currently.
I will be using this rifle as a fun bench gun but also huntin deer and hogs. Any advice and personal experience you guys can provide would be appreciated.
Ive got both also. The Howa has more aftermarket upgrades than the Ruger. With the Ruger your pretty much stuck with the ar mags, with the Howa, you can upgrade the factory bottom metal, get the HPK CZ mag conversion or theyre are two other internal box mag conversions.
The Ruger mag feeding issue is real. I spent a year off and on screwing around with it. Turns out, its a mag spring, tension issue. I cut 2 coils of an ASC mag and now I cant make it malfunction, with any size projectile. Completely different gun.
If you dont mind the AR mags and run a can, Id go Ruger Ranch w/16 barrel. If you want to upgrade to an internal box mag for a more streamlined, conventional setup, get the Howa.
Timney makes a decent drop in trigger for the Ruger. I like the Howa factory stock a lot more than the Ruger.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - MachV - 12-31-2023
Well here is my limited experience,some of its pertinent to what you asked.
Bought the first CZ527 Grendel i could put my hands on,24" barrel and set trigger= great gun! Liked it enough to put together an AR with Anderson parts and a 20" BCA barrel, againd another great gun...For me.
The daughter however is much smaller so the CZ doesn't fit her well and I aint cutting the stock! The ARs stock adjust to fit her well but is too heavy, it shoots great as is so not inerested in changeing it.
Now this brings us too your question. We went to the local gun shops to see if we could find something she could work with. The Ruger youth fit her well but the action on all of them we tryed left much to be desired, looking at it there was nuthing obvious that would fix it. Nobody in town had a Howa in Grendel but did have a couple of 6ARCs. As much as they pushed she did not like the Howa and I'm not messing with a round so close to the Grendel. The Howa to me is not as good as the CZ but hands down better than the Ruger ( I'M a ruger fan....when they work but that short action is junk!)
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - WVB4 - 12-31-2023
Thanks for all your first hand experience with all the different bolt Grendels. Im leaning heavily toward the Howa mainly because of the Rugers mag issues. I dont really like the looks of the Howas magazine and plastic bottom metal, but I can upgrade to the Jefferson Outdoors solution later on.
Im tempted to just pump the brakes and see how the gen 2 Rugers perform though. My only concern with those are the short barrels. My AR has an 18 bbl so Im looking to go longer with the bolt gun for added mv and the accompanying performance upgrade. Its also too bad they stopped making the CZ 527 cause thats a sexy lookin beast.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - grayfox - 12-31-2023
From a pure bolt action perspective, if you can handle the initial cost, look at the uintah upper, I have the 6Arc but they also have a 6.5 grendel. It goes on any spec AR-lower, but is a totally bolt action of their own design. the barrel is outstanding, the feed is great. The only downside is that it's a bit pricey. But you get what you pay for in it.
But yeah, echoing some of the others, the howa has more after-market support. One further advantage of the howa mags, you can load longer than 2.260. Granted in some ASC or duramags you could get, AR-wise, out to ~2.285, but the howa has room for sure, believe I've taken the 129 ablr out to 2.300.
I would hope that ruger fixes a lot of this stuff in their gen 2. I have a 6 Creed in ruger predator and it's a dandy, put it into a magpul stock. Successful deer gun for me.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - kmon - 01-01-2024
I want to see what Ruger does with the Gen 2. Wife needs a shorter LOP and would prefer a bolt action over the AR I think. Or at least today feels that way. As for me my CZ works great, built it before CZ finally got off their butts and started chambering it. 2.285 is as long as I can load in the CZ.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - EastTNHunter - 01-02-2024
I love my Howa mini, but my 9yo son has all but claimed it. I know that some dont like the stock, but the ergonomics are good on it and mine shoots incredibly accurate in it. I dont care at all for the factory bottom plastic and mags, so I tried the DIP bottom metal at first, but ultimately ended up with a hinged floor plate from HPK. Seems about perfect for a super light, low recoil deer rifle. Its accounted for several deer now. I have a lot of confidence in it with the Leupold VX3i 3.5-10x40 on it, but a 2-7 or 2.5-8 in a smaller form factor may be more appropriate for it.
My experience with the Ruger Americans has been hit or miss. They usually shoot well, but often are gritty and dont feed well. Their stocks seemed to have more flex than the Howa, but that is somewhat subjective
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - WVB4 - 01-02-2024
Through the responses posted here and my own research it became clear which rifle I should go with. So today after work I stopped by the LGS and ordered the 22 bbl Howa. Thanks for all your input and Ill update this thread once my rifle comes in.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - WVB4 - 01-13-2024
My rifle showed up at my LGS earlier in the week and my plan is to do the barrel breakin procedure that Howa recommends this weekend. I got the green stocked 22 threaded barrel. I mounted a gen 1 vortex viper pst 4-16x50mm using Talley rings.
I cleaned the barrel and disassembled the bolt and wiped it down. I only have one question. Is it typical for these rifles to be difficult to close the bolt on a live round? Its smooth when operating the bolt when unloaded.
However, it requires forward pressure or a slap to close the bolt on a piece of empty 0x fired Starline brass or factory ammo. Could it be related to a stiff extractor spring? Thanks in advance.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - grayfox - 01-13-2024
What round(s) are you trying? what bullets.
Could be stiff extractor.
Or could be relatively short chamber...
You can Try: bolt removed, use a sharpie to color the ogive/shank area of the bullet, drop a factory round into the chamber (gravity), does it seat in all the way? I s'pose you could gently tap the back end with a dowel rod... And does it fall out easily? This would be the key.
For that round, are there any rifling marks in the sharpie color. Like a 123 sst factory round...
If you have the OAL comparator tool (hornady) with a grendel modified case, which I recommend that everyone have, measure a couple well known bullets for max OAL in the chamber. My howa's have always had a lot of OAL room in them, but see what yours has.
New brass almost always is shorter in datum length to shoulder than any saami chamber, so they will shoot in any rifle. But you should always re-size new brass anyway... if nothing else it will ensure the case mouth is round and not dinged...
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - grayfox - 01-13-2024
While out and about, I thought of one more thing.
Take a new, starline if you want, empty case and insert it under the extractor, and force back into the ejector (thus lining it up to go into chamber), hold it there and guide it into the chamber as far as you can, then close the bolt. If it closes easily then the extractor claw might indeed be stiff.
You can also try the same thing after that, with a factory round, see if the bolt closes easily on the round. Again this would isolate the extractor and see if the chamber is fine.
Hornady 123's are typically 2.245 OAL or so, so should insert and extract easily.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - WVB4 - 01-13-2024
Thanks for your advice, I dont know why I didnt think of this method. As you suggested I put a new piece of starline brass under the extractor and pushed the ejector in while pushing the bolt closed. Once it lined up with the chamber it fed and the bolt closed easily.
I then did the same with Nemo PPU head stamped 120gr FMJ and the bolt closed easily. I will also use my modified case and comparator to check for jam for all the bullets I have on hand.
I have some 123gr SST reloads with and oal of 2.245 and there were no marks on the bullet once I overcame the stiff extractor issue. Thanks again.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - grayfox - 01-13-2024
Cool.
That lil 'jector is begging for a workout!!!
cycle some rounds downrange - get that bad boy in the game!
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - northdude - 01-20-2024
https://youtu.be/IAdR9ezUPgg?feature=shared
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - northdude - 01-20-2024
A simple fix for the bottom metal problem
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - WVB4 - 01-21-2024
I got out to the range for some barrel break-in this weekend. I followed Howas recommended procedure, but Im not sure whether it truly will make a difference or not. It was very cold here so keeping the barrel cool was easy.
After the break-in I shot five 3 shot groups and the average was somewhere around .8 or .9 with factory Hornady Black 123gr BTHP. Overall Im very happy with the rifle so far and I look forward to developing some handloads for it.
The plastic stock isnt terrible, but Im probably gonna order a carbon fiber stock for it soon. Im also on the waitlist for some JO bottom metal for it.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - ripcord - 01-23-2024
I am considering a Ruger American Rifle~ Predator, 6.5 Grendel with a 22" barrel to get back into the 6.5 Grendel game. Does anyone have any experience with this particular model? I have read about accidental mag drops and the plastic parts but these can be modified/replaced. Any advice will be gratefully appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - WVB4 - 01-23-2024
ripcord Wrote:I am considering a Ruger American Rifle~ Predator, 6.5 Grendel with a 22" barrel to get back into the 6.5 Grendel game. Does anyone have any experience with this particular model? I have read about accidental mag drops and the plastic parts but these can be modified/replaced. Any advice will be gratefully appreciated. Thanks in advance!
I was trying to decide between the Ruger and the Howa thats why I started this thread. After reading posts here and other places I ruled out the Ruger due to its mag feeding issues.
If you do some digging on this site Im sure youll find enough info to help you with your decision as well. My only experience is with the Howa, but it has been great so far and I would highly recommended it.
Ruger or Howa Bolt Gun? - grayfox - 01-23-2024
Yes. Feeding. Inconsistent and aggravating, especially for lower-grain bullets as they are somewhat shorter than the 123 eldms.
The mag rocks back and forth. the bullets tend to hit the vertical barrel face below the chambering hole. The various mods you try to the mags are handmade and inconsistent as well, can not find a consistent solution.
So much so that I sold it off and bought the howa mini. Much happier feeding now.
The gen 2 (coming 1Q24) may fix that, I don't know. will have to see.
But I'm already down the road with my howa, I did rebarrel it for 2" more and better shooting, although the 20" you can definitely get it to shoot. I wanted a bit more fps without ruining brass from overpressure. The howa mags have been no problem for me.