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Thinking of getting a Grendel. - Printable Version

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Thinking of getting a Grendel. - Galah - 12-12-2023

Hello guys this is my first post on this site , so please be gentle with me

I am thinking of getting a 6.5 Grendel (bolt action ) as I live in Australia. I hunt pigs at ranges no more than 100 m . I have found the ruger ranch with its 16 inch barrel and 10 shot magazine perfect for my needs . My ruger is chambered in 300 blackout and I use 110 gr projectiles exclusively, loaded with AR2205 / H4227 , which I get about 2230 fps or win 296 I get about 100 fps faster ( that last bottle of .296 cost me $200 for 1 pound second hand unopened) we have been unable to get any fast burning powder here for about a year . Hence my problem of not being able to feed my blackout with reloads ( about $45-$50 per 20 factory) .

My thoughts have turned to the Grendel, I would be using say 95 gr projectiles but am concerned that my velocity will be quite slow, as I will not be fire forming then reloading. I will be using 7.62 x39 brass and the fire forming load as the primary hunting load , to keep costs down . As most pig hunters know , 95% of your brass is lost in the bush . New Grendel brass is expensive here

So my Question is out off a 16 inch barrel and using a 95 gr projectile with a fire forming load my estimation on velocity is around 2250 fps or there abouts . Please correct me if I am wrong .

I apologise now , block your ears die hard Grendel people . I was thinking of the 25-45 sharps as a second option. it would be less hassle making cases and may give me better velocity first up , as I could jump the fire forming part .

The 25-45 will cost me more in the start because I would have to get one built , but reloading would be cheaper ( as have free supply of .223 cases )

On the other hand , the Grendel . I could buy off the shelf, but Ammo would be more expensive to reload, as I would have to buy x39 brass ( still cheaper than factory Grendel brass) plus the “Grendel” is such a bloody Cool name .

Sorry for sounding like such a tight arse but cost off feeding the rifle will be one off the major factors . We basically have the Hodgdon powders here H 4198. H 4895. H 4831. And Varget as they are made here and relatively easy to purchase

Greatly appreciate any comments and advice on the subject

Regards

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - natebonebusta - 12-12-2023

I have yet to use, but load h335 over a 95gr Vmax and produce 2599fps out of an 18.5” barrel Howa mini action. Loaded for coyotes mainly. Your hot rod powders are probably going to be leverevolution, cfe223, h335, ARcomp. Expect to lose 20-25fps per inch of barrel loss. My guess is you’d get 2540ish out of my load from 16” barrel.

You should be hearing from some much more educated folks, as I’m fairly new to the game myself.

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - JASmith - 12-12-2023

The neat thing about the Grendel is the huge variety of bullets and powders that work well with it.

Even more important is that that flexibility works well when one does not insist on geetting the last foot per second velocity out of one's rifle.

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - VASCAR2 - 12-12-2023

I’ve fire formed 7.62x39 to 6.5 Grendel but you have to use less powder because the fire formed x39 cases have less volume than true 6.5 Grendel brass. When I fire formed my 7.62x39 brass to 6.5 Grendel I used the minimum powder charge listed in the manual for the cheapest bullet I had available. I had bought factory seconds Sierra 100 grain varmint bullets and I think some Winchester 748. Once fire formed I used more powder to get closer to the same velocity as loads in 6.5 Grendel brass.

You could weigh water in a non fire formed brass case compared to an actual 6.5 Grendel case filled with water to get the percentage difference between the two cases. You might then have a better idea of how much powder you could use. I never had any issues using the minimum starting charge in fire forming x39 brass to 6.5 Grendel. The Hornady 8 or 9th edition reloading manual used a 14.5” AR-15 barrel for developing the load data. The data for the 95 grain V-Max should give you an idea of the velocity of a 16” 6.5 Grendel (16” might be 30-50 FPS higher than 14.5”). The fire formed x39 brass can be loaded to a max pressure of 52,000 PSI just like 6.5 Grendel brass but your FF cases just get to that pressure with less powder.

My fire formed brass only lasted for a few reloads before the primer pockets got loose. Some x39 brass is easier to size than other brands. I used Dillon case lube with Hornady dies and ruined a couple pieces of x39 brass trying to size to 6.5 Grendel. If I remember correctly I had the most ruined cases with IMI brass.


[Image: 53393773460_8dd18a1e55_z.jpg]

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - VASCAR2 - 12-12-2023

Hornady put out revised data for the 6.5 Grendel using CFE223 powder.


Hornady load data update

Page 286, 6.5 Grendel, 95-100 grain data, the CFE 223 line should read.


Powder CFE 223 28.5gr. Vel 2300, 29.7gr Velocity 2400, 31.0gr. Vel 2500, 32.2gr. Vel 2600, 32.9gr. Vel 2650, 33.5gr. Vel 2700 FPS

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - Galah - 12-12-2023

VASCAR2 Wrote:Hornady put out revised data for the 6.5 Grendel using CFE223 powder.


Hornady load data update

Page 286, 6.5 Grendel, 95-100 grain data, the CFE 223 line should read.


Powder CFE 223 28.5gr. Vel 2300, 29.7gr Velocity 2400, 31.0gr. Vel 2500, 32.2gr. Vel 2600, 32.9gr. Vel 2650, 33.5gr. Vel 2700 FPS

Thanks for the reply’s .
Looks like I would be getting similar velocity as with the blackout. Unfortunately Vascar not one of the powders listed are available here, bugger . As mentioned the 6.5mm has such a array of projectiles to choose from .

I have a tikka in .260 and find this versatile. I use this set up at night time with a thermal scope . During the day , This rifle is not suited for bush hunting on a motor bike , as its long barrel and 5 round mag is a handicap . Have to keep thinking ????

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - 603Country - 12-13-2023

If the OP can get H335, that’ll do just fine pushing that 95 gr bullet. Probably about 2600 fps in a 20” barrel or 2500 in a 16”. And, I have had good results with that bullet on a small number of large hogs. I suppose that the rather low relative velocity keeps bullet fragmentation down.

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - trubulator - 12-13-2023

Galah, I have had good results with H4895, a powder that you should be able to get. The only rub is that I use it with a 129 grain bullet, as it seems to be better suited to the heavier bullets. Can you get Hornady 129s?

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - Galah - 12-13-2023

Thanks again guys , encouraging velocities, is that a fire forming load velocity in x39 brass Can I ask .

I would rather keep velocity up than increase bullet weight as 70 % of pigs shot are between 10 to 60 kgs and the range never over 100 m . I find increasing velocity helps with hydrostatic shock and a faster knock down , if I play my part right also . I would rather give up a little in penetration , that a heavier projectile brings .

I guess using these midsized cartridges there is going to be a trade off . When I was using my .308 , the best bullet for me was the 130 gr Speer hollow point . these pills just ripped the insides to mush . But in my older age, and the amount of rounds fired , I am getting over the extra noise, extra recoil, and the extra weight of the rifle . That’s why I love using the blackout. But always looking for something even better.

What do they say about fishing tackle shops , there not there to help you catch fish , there there to help them catch anglers

Maybe I don’t need a new rifle , ………. ???

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - VASCAR2 - 12-13-2023

Here is a list of ADI powders that are the same as powders marketed by Hodgdon in the USA.

[Image: 53395265676_9e18364abd_z.jpg]


If you can get ADI AR2207, AR2219, BM2, Bench Mark 8208 powders in your area these are all fast powders which should give good velocity out of a16” barrel with 95 grain V-Max.


Shooters World Powder in the US is the same as many Lovex powders available in Europe. There are a couple of good powders for lighter 6.5 Grendel bullets with Lovex. I don’t know if VihtaVuori powder is available in Australia but N-133 and N-135 both are faster powders and work very well with 85-100 grain 6.5 Grendel. There is online reloading data for Lovex and VihtaVuori.

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - VASCAR2 - 12-13-2023

You can online reloading data from Hodgdon for the 6.5 Grendel with 95 grain V-Max with AR2219/H-322 and BM2/Benchmark at the link below.


https://hodgdonreloading.com/rldc/

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - Galah - 12-14-2023

Great Hodgdons site even better than the old one thanks vascar.
Would the min load of the correct ADI powders still be to high for a fire forming load ?
What would be a guesstimate of a fire forming loads velocity be , using a 95 gr projectile , then having a reduction out off a 16 inch barrel
Would 2400 fps be achievable in these initial forming loads

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - VASCAR2 - 12-15-2023

If you can get ADI BM2 (Benchmark) Hodgdon list 27.0 grains at 33,900 PSI as the starting load with the 95 grain V-Max. One disadvantage of Hornady data as it is listed to be safe with the 95 grain V-Max, 100 grain A-Max and 100 grain soft point. Hodgdon did their pressure testing that is listed with the 95 grain V-Max. Hodgdon list a velocity of 2476 but I assume that is a 24” universal test barrel. I think your 27.0 grain BM2 load would generate more pressure/velocity because of the smaller case capacity. I think you’ll probably have a velocity of 2350 FPS to 2400 FPS with the minimum charge of 27.0 grains BM2 in non fire formed X39. That is just extrapolating the difference from chronograph data where I chronographed 6.5 Grendel in 16”, 18”, 20, & 24” AR-15’s on the same day at 70 degrees with a Magnettospeed chronograph.

You really won’t know your velocity without chronographing your specific load. I think your safer doing this with a bolt action compared to a gas operated semi auto like an AR-15. SAAMI spec maximum pressure is 52,000 PSI but Hodgdon max load of BM2 is 30.0 compressed with a pressure of 49,700. Hodgdon has two sets of data, the first set has lower charges that generally produces different pressures than the second set of data. I don’t know if the data was collected during two different test with different lots of powder or if one was tested for bolt action and one set of data for a gas operated firearms. The data looks like the same brass case and primer. Some data posted on Hodgdon Website is the Ramshot Western data that was achieved prior to being bought by Hodgdon.

You can use any of the available powders in your area but with 7.62x39 brass I would use the minimum charge of any of those powders. If you recover your brass which would be fire formed to your chamber you could then safely increase the amount of powder. I would just work up while using a chronograph and not go near the max load for Hornady or Alexander Arms/Lapua 6.5 Grendel brass.

I’d weigh how much water an x39 weighs and compare the water’s weight to a fire formed X39 case to the weight of water from a 6.5 Grendel brass case. You could then get an idea of your X39 case capacity. You could get a percentage of difference between the different cases.

There are several threads discussing fire forming 7.62 brass to 6.5 Grendel. I used my FF brass when hunting varmints so I wouldn’t loose my good 6.5 Grendel brass. The most economical brass is 6.5 Grendel brass if buying new. A friend gave me some 7.62x39 brass which I used before I accumulated a lot of 6.5 Grendel brass.

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - tdbru - 12-18-2023

Galah,
When I was using reformed 7.62x39 I neck annealed after running the case through the 6.5 Grendel sizing die, then did outside neck turning to reduce the neck thickness because that tends to get thicker as you neck down. I also found that I had to reduce loads by 2 gr. due to the large rifle primer as compared to the Grendel case with it's small rifle primer.

with the 85 - 100 gr. bullets I have found benchmark (BM2) to work pretty well. with 123-130 gr. bullets I am fond of H4895. I'm happy for you that you can get AR2206H fairly easily. I haven't seen any of that in my neck of the woods for 3+ years. I thought perhaps ADI quit making it.

it was a lot of work reforming the 7.62x39 cases into 6.5 Grendel. It is doable. If or when you can get commercial 6.5 Grendel brass, that sure saves a LOT of work. But not absolutely necessary. I don't have feral swine in the woods up here, but there are a lot of reports by DNS, a forum member, in the hunting section, on how various 6.5mm bullets have worked for the hogs he has taken. He is very thorough on his analysis so his info is very helpful.

I still am getting service out of some of my original reformed cases. I just have to remember to reduce the powder amount by 2gr. due to the use of the large rifle primer. Perhaps some of that was the difference in case capacity too. but 2gr. less showed about the same velocity. normal case life. and once small rifle primer pocket 6.5 Grendel ammo and cases started showing up I was happy to transition to those to reduce all the effort at reforming brass.

best of luck to you. of course I'd recommend the Grendel, but, if other calibers are more accessible, that's totally understandable.
-tdbru

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - Konocti's Wigwam - 12-18-2023

FWIW, Barnes load data.

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/6.5-Grendel.pdf

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - Galah - 12-18-2023

I really appreciate all the replies . For a new member you guys have been so generous. I have to go away from the thought of using the Grendel as my day pig rifle . But I think it’s a contender to streamline the rifles I already have . I would use the Grendel with a 22 inch barrel for night time shooting from a vehicle using thermal I would save 80 % of cases rather than lose 95% during the day . The cost of the cases are about $90 for 50 , at that price I would be spending more time picking up brass from the dirt than shooting pigs .


.pdf   IMG_1658.pdf (Size: 137.46 KB / Downloads: 14)
This is how I carry my rifle, having anything longer than the handlebars just gets hammered going through scrub and poking around trees , hence my need for a shorter barrel 18 inch max.

Thanks again for all the information it will be put to good use . I have already tested my .260 with reduced loads of 2206 h to duplicate Grendel velocity but didn’t get time to test it to much , even though we shot 127 pigs I only used it to drop one of them .it was mainly to see the recoil and blast , which was better than a full tank

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - Konocti's Wigwam - 12-18-2023

I pondered setting up a quad or mountain bicycle and haven't come to a conclusion on how to mount my rifle, or if I should mount it. Ideally I like having the barrel point down in some type of scabbard, but they bounce around a lot so most folks recommend the handle bars as you've done on your motorcycle.

Have you tried difference configurations for your rifle?

I plan to use a 12" barrel, and can't hunt at night so no thermal for me. I was temped to get the new Arken thermal, they just announced the Sony thermal with a range finder for a very reasonable price, but since I can't hunt at night in California, there's really no reason. I use an LPVO most of the time.

KW

Thinking of getting a Grendel. - Stinky Coyote - 12-21-2023

there's no finer way to burn 30 grains of powder than with a 6.5 Grendel imo, everyone should have at least 2 Wink