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New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - Klem - 10-20-2023
Guys,
Does anyone have any experience or chatter about this new chrono by Garmin?
[URL="https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/771164#overview"]
Xero C1 Pro Chronograph[/URL]
Klem
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - grayfox - 10-20-2023
I saw a couple reviews and got an email on its arrival today (well, yesterday by now).
Looks pretty slick in its really small package. Uses a 24gHz doppler radar and says you only need to have it 5-15" away from the barrel. As long as other shooters are 5 ft away it's not supposed to pick them up.
Downloads all the data to an app on iphone/ipad or android. Claims it does away with the finicky-ness of the labradar (I don't have any experience in that, being a magneto-guy myself, but that's the claim)
List price $599, a few are showing up in online stores...
Battery life is said to be much improved from the labradar, 1 charge lasts up to 200 shots/several trips or something.
Comes with a shorty-style tripod, the whole thing is supposed to fit in your pocket.
Looks interesting, if I didn't already have my magnetospeed I would be tempted... but the $$ tag is still a bit rich for me as well. If some $$ deals show up for Christmas, that might be something to think about...
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - LRRPF52 - 10-20-2023
[video=youtube_share;TXMilgPvrfY]https://youtu.be/TXMilgPvrfY?feature=shared[/video]
Ray is a no-BS shooter who gives legit reviews. Hes had one for a while doing beta testing and loves it.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - BlogSarge - 10-20-2023
Dammit, you guys keep costing me money.
Ive been about fed up with the finickiness of my current skyscreen-style chrono for some time now, and then you post this
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - jasper2408 - 10-20-2023
So in none of the reviews have I seen anything about when the battery stops being rechargeable and goes dead.
Seems the option to run this on an external battery would have been an important option to design into it.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - Klem - 10-20-2023
The Garmin does seem like a decent improvement from a known manufacturer over the Labradar. Made in Taiwan with a one-year warranty. Labradar is also one-year.
The other one that has been around for a bit longer is the 'Bulletseeker Mach 4' from Sekr-tech. It has been re-named 'Speedtracker Mach 4'. Needs to be attached to the rifle - $850USD. Made in the Czech Republic by German engineers.
Labradar (Infinition) does not seem to have improved over the years, with an almost monopoly on the market. I don't use the phone app which doesn't add much and has frozen a few times. The other issue is its size relative to these newer smaller radars. I use a Pelican case for the Labradar, which is a separate piece of luggage when heading to the Range. The European Speedtracker radar is sold here but I don't know anyone who has it to comment. Everyone seems to use the Labradar, and one or two have Magnetospeeds. Speedtracker is also more costly than the Labradar, but looks to be about the same as the Garmin when it gets here.
The benefit of the Labradar is of course multiple velocities heading downrange, for working out the true BC of bullets. To be honest I don't use that feature often.
With the Garmin what's the story when the internal battery starts to degrade - can you pull it apart easily. I understand from the Beta videos that it's not supposed to be a user battery change. Also interested if structure downrange affects the Garmin like it does to the Labradar. How easy is it to transfer files and in what format?
It's compact size is a big plus. If I didn't already have the Labradar...
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - grayfox - 10-20-2023
Think I read that the transfer file is a csv, which would be a good, universal format if so...
The thing on battery life/need for changeout - I missed that one, good point there. Don't have the problem with my magneto, it's a single 9V battery (duracell, energizer, whatever), and lasts 1-2 months, I carry a spare in the magneto box.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - kmon - 10-21-2023
Quote:I used this chronograph yesterday and saying its a gamechanger is an understatement I think.
We had had 10 shooters laying on mats and literally just moved it up and down the line placing it beside different rifles and it never missed a shot.
I put my LabRadar on one side and the new Garmin on the other and shot 3 rounds the variance was 5/4/5 fps from one to the other.
You will see Labradars being sold although it may be a while before you can get your hands on one. Supposedly price is around same as Lab about 600.00
That is from a man that shoots a lot with connections to play with new stuff. I trust his opinion
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - lazyengineer - 10-21-2023
Love it! It's about time someone came up with something to compete with LabRadar.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - SDW - 10-21-2023
Holy crap. When I saw the title of this thread I thought, please Lord let it be some pocket sized version of a LabRadar....
Man... as soon as I see them go on sale somewhere, I'm there. That'll make my other chronos obsolete in an instant.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - biodsl - 10-21-2023
SDW Wrote:Holy crap. When I saw the title of this thread I thought, please Lord let it be some pocket sized version of a LabRadar....
Man... as soon as I see them go on sale somewhere, I'm there. That'll make my other chronos obsolete in an instant.
The portability is impressive. A shooter could actually chrono the weapon system at the time and in the environmentals in which it's going to be used.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - LRRPF52 - 10-21-2023
Before light optical chronographs, they had:
* Ballistic pendulum (1742). It measured movement of the pendulum to determine velocity.
![[Image: ?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhyperphysics.phy-astr.gs...ipo=images]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu%2Fhbase%2Fimgmec%2Fbpen.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=63d4c8179d74ca1ed86072baf291235e67105abdd1a2eca4ff488d48044fd9f5&ipo=images)
* Wheel Chronometer (1765)
* Dual wheel Chronometer (1804)
* Bashforth screened chronograph with thread triggers and switches for artillery (1865).
* 1921 Aberdeen Loomis chronograph, using electromagnets and tape.
_________________________________________________________________
Then came Optical, followed by Microwave Interferometry, Doppler, and 3-screen optical (Oehler).
* Optical Chronographs
* Aberdeen Ballistics Search Lab Microwave Interferometer (1953). The Microwave Inteferometer determined the rate of acceleration of a projectile inside the rifle/firearm bore. This apparatus was revolutionary in understanding the traveling charge concept.
* 1956 Aberdeen Proving Grounds Doppler Radar Velocity and Positioning System (DOVAP).
* Oehlers 3-screen Optical Chronograph, 1977.
* Magnetospeed, 2012.
* LabRadar 2015 using Doppler effect
* SpeedTracker Mach 4, 2023, weapon-mounted Doppler Radar with BlueTooth connectivity.
* Garmin Xero C1, 2023
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - LRRPF52 - 10-21-2023
Heres another in-depth review that just dropped:
[video=youtube_share;5C4IHfLV1mY]https://youtu.be/5C4IHfLV1mY?feature=shared[/video]
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - SDW - 10-21-2023
Yeah. Fits in a pocket. Doesn't need to attach to a barrel---which could disturb barrel harmonics, in case you're trying to measure groups as well as velocities for workups.
And it sends data via Bluetooth to a phone, which is awesome. I have a Caldwell chrono that does this, but it's much clunkier and in fact, not 100% reliable at measuring bullet velocities. And I have the more budget friendly version of the Magnetospeed, but its capabilities are pretty limited. Basically, if you don't write down the data you see on the minimal display after each group, you loose the data when starting the next group.
I like the fact that the Garmin has a built in USB-rechargeable battery. It's no problem to carry a power pack and cord (as I usually do) for multi-day usage. Or just recharge it from a car's or truck's electrical accessory outlet. Unfortunately, the internal battery is non-replaceable. It's a little scary when talking about a device that costs this much. One-year warranty. So for whoever gets one, in the future don't throw it a drawer and forget about it for a few years. Li-Ion batteries can deplete so much that it's difficult to get them to accept a charge again. That would be a shame with something like this.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - SDW - 10-21-2023
Here's the gadget for attaching it to a rail/forend via an Arca-Swiss plate. They don't mention it but there's gotta be a Picatinny clamp that'd work with this for those of us who don't have Arca mounts on our rifles.
https://www.area419.com/product/arcalock-arm-for-garmin-xero/
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - grayfox - 10-21-2023
1 little editorial correction...
You don't lose the magnetospeed data when you go to the next group (I write it all down anyway), you save it on a microchip which you can download into your laptop, they are csv files, every group is labeled 01-99, and when you reach 99 it starts the numbering all over. Doesn't overwrite until the chip is full, just another set of 00-99's (mine is 4GB). ... they will store on that chip for years.
But yeah that little garmin is pretty cool.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - Klem - 10-22-2023
Another question is, how forgiving is the aiming of this Garmin compared with the Labrar. This is for when it's sitting on the tripod. You can lose the first couple of shots with the Labradar if you're not careful with the aiming. And Labradar's aiming notch on top is pretty average for such a narrow beam. I'm hoping the emission beam on the Garmin is more forgiving.
I like how this Garmin is small enough to mount on the handguard somewhere, but does not have to be fixed to the barrel like the Magnetospeed (harmonics). That way you can get velocities while shifting around between multiple targets, like a steel gong session. Hopefully the recoil of larger calibres are not going to turn it into a salt shaker.
I can't get over how small it is.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - lazyengineer - 10-22-2023
Klem Wrote:Another question is, how forgiving is the aiming of this Garmin compared with the Labrar. This is for when it's sitting on the tripod. You can lose the first couple of shots with the Labradar if you're not careful with the aiming. And Labradar's aiming notch on top is pretty average for such a narrow beam. I'm hoping the emission beam on the Garmin is more forgiving.
I like how this Garmin is small enough to mount on the handguard somewhere, but does not have to be fixed to the barrel like the Magnetospeed (harmonics). That way you can get velocities while shifting around between multiple targets, like a steel gong session. Hopefully the recoil of larger calibres are not going to turn it into a salt shaker.
I can't get over how small it is.
The size improvement is pretty neat. It's been close to a decade since LabRadar came out (2015). LabRadar is very obviously a home-job hobbyist cottage industry rig. It didn't have anywhere close to the latest Generation industrial accessible electronics and such in it circa 2015. Worse, LabRadar has done nothing to update their product over the near decade since launch. They mostly just walked away and kept Skippy on the manufacturing line churning out the same 2015 era units. They even downgraded it for a while eliminating bluetooth feature for a couple years. While Garmin is an established leading technology company with access to the latest tech's and will have people with titles like "Chip Fab Foundry Relationship Manager" and such; and a supply-chain relationship with all the other component suppliers, already in place. So it's not so surprising the Garmin unit is so much more modern. And at the same price-point, I see no reason not to buy this over a LabRadar. That's what I'd do, if I didn't already have a LabRadar. I really don't know why Garmin bothered, since they'll only sell a few thousand units a year - my guess is they have a shooter in their tech group. And that alone, gives serious cool-points to Garmin, and something I'll remember. LabRadar's customer service / warrantee group is also cottage-industry level, which is to say when you call and ask for help, the first thing they do is send you a substantial cost-estimate for the shipping and open-ended "parts and labor" aspects. Whereas Garmin will just throw it away and send you another one that the robot's cranked out.
Apparently it doesn't give the user multple tracks like LabRadar does, so you won't be able to back-calculate Ballistic Coefficients (BC)'s, like you can with LabRadar. Which I've found fun to play around with, but really, an activity-trap because the quality of those calculated BC was always just terrible. The span of bullet flight it tracks is too short, and the noise level is just too high to get a trustworthy BC out of a LabRadar, has been my experience at least.
Get it! And write a review. I'm excited, and if my LabRadar breaks (again), I'm just going to dump it and get on of these Garmin's.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - SDW - 10-22-2023
grayfox Wrote:1 little editorial correction...Oh, you are correct! Thanks. I'd forgotten about that. I hadn't gotten around to doing anything with it except play around on a couple of rifles. It's not as easy to use as my Caldwell, which when it works, it works very well. Data sent to my phone automatically after every shot. But I get a fair amount of no-reads. And occasionally, really strange reads. I went through a couple of strings one day where the velocities were all about 1000 ft/sec lower than actual! It was really weird. And I've never gotten it to measure handgun shots well at all. Not even once.
You don't lose the magnetospeed data when you go to the next group (I write it all down anyway), you save it on a microchip which you can download into your laptop, they are csv files, every group is labeled 01-99, and when you reach 99 it starts the numbering all over. Doesn't overwrite until the chip is full, just another set of 00-99's (mine is 4GB). ... they will store on that chip for years.
But yeah that little garmin is pretty cool.
New Chrono: Garmin Xero C1 - SDW - 10-22-2023
Klem Wrote:Another question is, how forgiving is the aiming of this Garmin compared with the Labrar. This is for when it's sitting on the tripod. You can lose the first couple of shots with the Labradar if you're not careful with the aiming. And Labradar's aiming notch on top is pretty average for such a narrow beam. I'm hoping the emission beam on the Garmin is more forgiving.The guy in at least one of those videos indicated that it's much more forgiving than the Labradar. Supposedly it never failed to capture a shot? There will be more videos popping up ever day as well. More people to beta test it, if you will, so we'll be getting a larger consensus. And eventually someone will test the scope of the radar read directly to find the threshold of what's acceptable. Could vary, depending on the firearm, bullet weight and speed, etc.
I never used a Labradar so I don't know how to set it up and use it. But I think it's interesting that with this Garmin you start by selecting whether you're shooting a rifle or handgun. And what approx velocities it will be. Just basically under 1800 fps or over that, if I remember. And you can also enter in bullet weight, apparently. Hey, whatever helps the thing to work well.