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Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - Printable Version

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Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - SDW - 10-13-2023

Hi all. Short question. Any one of you using standard small-rifle primers for Grendel? I know it's more conventional to use better primers, such as match, magnum, and military grade. I usually use BR myself. Like Rem #7 /12. I was wondering if it's a genuine mistake to use regular primers.

On impulse I put CCI 400 primers in 50 new-brass cases since I want to load up just general purpose sight-in, plinking, and maybe as a last ditch, HD ammo. Bullets I'll be using are PPU 120gr HPBTs. These aren't made to the highest precision so I'm not expecting one-hole groups. But they were inexpensive and this is the purpose for which I bought them.

Normally I use these #400s in my 5.56 loads. I just wanted to make sure it's not crazy to use them in average, gen purpose ammo.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - Harpoon1 - 10-14-2023

It’s more of a safety issue, using “standard” small rifle primers in the AR platform not recommended.. They’re fine for a bolt gun but, they have a thinner cup thickness and are more prone to a slam fire in the AR. I’d stick with the thicker cup, 450, #41, 205AR primers in an AR.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - SDW - 10-14-2023

Ah. Thank you. I'd known for a while that the thicker-cup primers were "better" for that reason. Been very lucky up to now, I guess. I've never had an issue with regular primers in my 5.56 loads. Loaded and fired 1000-1500 or so over the years. Not a huge test size I know. I had one double-fire event, about 20 years ago. Factory ammo though, I think. Most of my 5.56 loads have been with Winchester SR. And I have these CCI 400s that I got somewhat recently. I'll have to use those up on 5.56 and hope for the best, that my lucks holds out with them.

I do have the Rem 7.5s and CCI #41s on hand. For Grendel I'll stick with those going forward.

Does anyone know, is it dangerous to press out live primers using a decapping die? And would it ruin the primers? I figure that last one might be a dumb question. Probably crushes the anvil a little, at the very least. In the old days I wouldn't have cared too much. But damn, the price of primers these days makes me want to cry. Price sticker still on my box of #400s says #39.95. I think they've more than doubled by now.

Edit: I was thinking impulsively above. Those 50 CCIs cost me $2. About $4 at todays prices. Obviously not worth caring about too much. Cheap lesson I guess. I could just write these off and push in #41 primers. Or keep the #400s in the these cases and just go with a light load, winch would help with pressure at least, but doesn't do anything for avoiding slam-fires. Hmm.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - EastTNHunter - 10-14-2023

The “safety” issue is more about slam fires with the floating firing pin in an AR bolt, the way that I understand it… it is something that I’ve heard of but never actually experienced. I’ve also heard about the thicker primer cups holding up better for higher pressure loads, but once again that is theoretical for a battle field (worst case) situation. I’ve used CCI400s in 5.56 AR loads for years with no problems, but will likely start moving towards CCI41s in the future. I’m also using CCI450s in my 6.5G Howa mini loads using Tac, but have used CCI400s with Starline brass and H4895 for this rifle with no ill effect

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - Klem - 10-14-2023

SDW,

Like has been said, slam-fires in this platform are rare as hen's teeth. I've never seen or heard of one over the years, but the risk exists.

I prefer 450's but have used other primers and never had an issue.

Here's a chart of the different dimensions and thicknesses of small rifle primers https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/primers-and-pressure-analysis/. We can't assume the same hardness of cups across brands however, so the chart is only part of the story. In the CCI brand, CCI41 are Milspec for 5.56 ammo - Apparently they are the same specs as their 450 magnums.

Yes, I've carefully deprimed and reused unfired primers, but usually throw them away. Obviously the anvil still needs to be in the cup.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - SDW - 10-14-2023

Yep. It's only happened to me twice. That is, I've had double-fires, which I assume was caused by a slam-fire of the second round. First time was in an AR-15 and the second time was in my old Remington Model 8 that my dad handed down to me. What' interesting is that this rifle originally came with a floating FP like the AR. But when I replaced the original (broken) FP with a newer-production one from Numrich's I believe, I also retrofitted the FP spring used in the later Model 81? It was no longer free-floated. Spring seemed kind of weak to me though. When I let a friend shoot it one time, he fired off a couple of shots before his next one went Ba-boom! And two .35 Rem cases fell to the ground.

Anyway... I do know the thicknesses. Seen that chart before. The CCI400s are the thinnest. My original go-tos, the WSR, are a hair thicker than that at .021" and I read somewhere that Win might use a harder alloy, and so the WSR are considered by "some people" to be GTG for AR-15 use. They've worked fine for me, in any case. No pun intended.


Just for peace of mind I pushed out the #400s and put in #41s. I'll have a look at the popped-out #400s more closely later to see if they look okay. I glanced at one and its anvil looked okay, but I wasn't using a magnifier to check. TBH, I don't like the idea of getting my eye that close to a primer! Let alone the business end. Seems like tempting fate. LOL But as long as I use my hand lens, there's a thick piece of glass between eye and mini-bomb and the odds are probably in my favor.

FWIW, when I bought the #41s they were at least $10 more than the standard primers. I remember thinking, "these military primers must be good!" Thicker cup, hotter bang. Probably for reliable use in MGs.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - Old Bob - 10-15-2023

I shot 3 gun for many years. Most of what I shot was LC or Winchester 5.56 NATO. I did reload a bunch too. Some had CCI 400 SR primers but most had CCI#41s. Don't recall ever having an issue slam-firing with the 400s although I did have a few that were fail-to-fire.

If, for any reason I have to punch out live primers, I put them in a small jar & then spray some WD40 on them. I give the jar a good shake & then let the primers soak a couple of days. Then I dump them in the trash. I never reuse primers.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - LR1955 - 10-15-2023

Old Bob Wrote:I shot 3 gun for many years. Most of what I shot was LC or Winchester 5.56 NATO. I did reload a bunch too. Some had CCI 400 SR primers but most had CCI#41s. Don't recall ever having an issue slam-firing with the 400s although I did have a few that were fail-to-fire.

If, for any reason I have to punch out live primers, I put them in a small jar & then spray some WD40 on them. I give the jar a good shake & then let the primers soak a couple of days. Then I dump them in the trash. I never reuse primers.

OB:

Not sure a guy could reuse live primers he had already seated. I think they expand to fit the primer pocket when seated and get further distorted when punched out of the brass.

You ever tried to reseat one? I haven't but would be interested to know if it is possible.

If I were doing the three gun stuff, it would be a CCI primer and probably a 41. I would go for cheap and safe.

LR55

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - SDW - 10-15-2023

Old Bob Wrote:I shot 3 gun for many years. Most of what I shot was LC or Winchester 5.56 NATO. I did reload a bunch too. Some had CCI 400 SR primers but most had CCI#41s. Don't recall ever having an issue slam-firing with the 400s although I did have a few that were fail-to-fire.

If, for any reason I have to punch out live primers, I put them in a small jar & then spray some WD40 on them. I give the jar a good shake & then let the primers soak a couple of days. Then I dump them in the trash. I never reuse primers.

Thanks Old Bob. I was pondering how I'd dispose of them safely.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - EastTNHunter - 10-15-2023

I have reused LRPs before, but I marked them for plinking only. They always went bang, and were accurate enough to 100yd for busting bottles, etc. I knew that there was a possibility with any of them that they may not go bang

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - SDW - 10-15-2023

EastTNHunter Wrote:I have reused LRPs before, but I marked them for plinking only. They always went bang, and were accurate enough to 100yd for busting bottles, etc. I knew that there was a possibility with any of them that they may not go bang
That's another possibility. If these primers don't look visibly damaged I could press them into random 5.56 cases load them with a mild weight of one of my lesser used powders under 55gr ball. Keep them around as clearly marked "sight-in only" ammo. Something to have for re-checking zero on my various 5.56 uppers. Hmmm.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - LR1955 - 10-15-2023

EastTNHunter Wrote:I have reused LRPs before, but I marked them for plinking only. They always went bang, and were accurate enough to 100yd for busting bottles, etc. I knew that there was a possibility with any of them that they may not go bang

Hmmm....

Never would have thought they could be re seated.

Thankyou!

LR55

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - Zeneffect - 10-15-2023

They felt loose when I reseated. Only did it twice, both times it didn't feel right. Nothing else to note really.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - Old Bob - 10-16-2023

LR1955 Wrote:OB:

Not sure a guy could reuse live primers he had already seated. I think they expand to fit the primer pocket when seated and get further distorted when punched out of the brass.

You ever tried to reseat one? I haven't but would be interested to know if it is possible.

If I were doing the three gun stuff, it would be a CCI primer and probably a 41. I would go for cheap and safe.

LR55

No, never tried to reseat punched out primers. Punching them out pushes the anvil into & disturbs the primer mix. Looking & comparing a new primer with a punched out primer under magnification (X10), I could tell the difference between them. The anvil on the punched out primer was set perceptively deeper in the cup & was slightly tilted. If reusing the primer, it would be set deeper in the pocket. This deeper set could possibly result in misfires. It's might be only thousandth of an inch or less, but I'd rather not take the chance.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - Harpoon1 - 10-16-2023

Old Bob Wrote:If, for any reason I have to punch out live primers, I put them in a small jar & then spray some WD40 on them. I give the jar a good shake & then let the primers soak a couple of days. Then I dump them in the trash. I never reuse primers.

I never intended to reuse them so, I always just soaked them in water for a while before depriming!

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - FBOldCrow - 10-16-2023

FWIW Bruno's have the Large rifle military primers in stock and offer no hazmat fee fee at least for today over $300 in shipping. But don't know if they have the smaller rifle ones. I was lucky to find 3k plus of the Federal Gold Match AR Small Rifle primers during the great pandemic. But even with the CCI's I have never had a misfire for me, just lucky for once? But I'm not one for Brrrrrrp. Except with Wolf ammo.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - LRRPF52 - 10-16-2023

I would probably just shoot them in the cold weather months, where chances of slam-fire are reduced even further.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - 603Country - 10-19-2023

I had a bunch of 223 rounds loaded up with CCI 400s that were for the bolt gun. They shot real well in the AR, but I did have slam fires twice. Switched to 450’s and 41’s and no problems since. Never had a slam fire with the Grendel, since I never used CCI 400s.

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - Bob R - 10-19-2023

I have owned AR15's since the early 1980's. I have shots lots of reloads with regular small rifle primers. I have read about the possibility of a slam fire, but I have never had an AR slam fire, or been around anyone who has had it happen. It could happen, but it is not something that I worry about.

Bob R

Standard SR primers vs match/magnum/military - Mark611 - 10-20-2023

I'll throw 2ct in this 1, If it's luck? don't know? I have ran Winchester standard small and large primers in my AR's and M1A1/M14 and have never had a problem, but I do make sure I seat them at least 4k into the pocket, the question about reusing primers I've done it without issue. they go bang every time! but if I have to remove a primer it was probably due to a sizing issue of the brass, and I gently remove them. also, in regard to using standard primers, I have loaded rounds at the range and then removed them to check to see if the primers are being hit by the firing pin and if so, how much? most of any primer strikes I've ever seen from a gas gun were not enough to set the primer off, even loading a single round and pulling the bolt carrier all the way back and letting it fly home, even on my M14 308win, with Winchester LRP, I would probably not use a softer primer then the Winchesters in autoloaders and make sure their seated at least 4k into the pocket! JMO.