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Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? (/showthread.php?tid=25802)

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - Zeneffect - 07-17-2023

Replicated a load I worked up in 2021, never fails to put a smile down.

2.285coal
30.3gr LVR
130gr Berger OTM
Starline brass
Cci #41
22" criterion
[Image: 20230717-130711.jpg]

[Image: Ballistic-X-Export-2023-07-17-14-48-06-361556.png]

Temp was 100F out, 3F off what I developed the load in.

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - biodsl - 07-17-2023

That...is...unreal.

I am certain I can't duplicate these results, but I have every single component on hand to duplicate the load. I'll try to report back on Thursday.

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - Zeneffect - 07-18-2023

Neolube the case neck, set the ec tuner brake to just a hair past 1. A neolubed neck will feel like it didnt get resized when seating... ignore it... perfectly normal. You will get super friggin close, this isn't my first rodeo shooting .1s with this setup. 26.8 of 8208 + 120 smk do it also.... the 105 blitzkings + staball match also....

I been trying to get the elusive .0x for a while now and still not there. I think I'm at the limits of the setup with the equipment I have. There are things left on the table I can improve, but not without a significant cost that I'm not willing to spend. That last 1% gets expensive quick

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - Zeneffect - 07-18-2023

This is the old chrono data, average fps is exactly the same 2 years later. I think leverevolution lot to lot is really good

[Image: Screenshot-20210921-182338-XFR-REV2.jpg]


Edit

Today's brass

[Image: 20230717-185959.jpg]

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - CJW - 07-18-2023

Zen that is incredible.

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - Zeneffect - 07-18-2023

Full notes:
Starline, -.0020 shoulder - annealed
1.5815 case length
Mighty armory die that the owner reworked for me because of issues with my first one
Hornady seating die with micrometer adjustment
Mec marksman press
Bullet seating saw 3 turns before completion
Cbto variance round to round is kept under .002"
Neolube case neck
Cci primer that is gold colored, not the rose gold colored ones
Lot of lvr doesn't really matter
Charge weight within .006gn variance
Use a vld chamfer
Deburr flash holes... seriously. Starline gave me a nice little pile of shavings when I first prepped them.
No crimp
Bullets sorted to within .1gn
Cases sort of sorted... I don't trust water method to be as precise as i want anymore so ???? Close enough I suppose.

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - CJW - 07-18-2023

Zen,
Please tell me about neolube in your case necks………I’ve always used powered graphite on the necks prior to seating pills.


Chuck

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - biodsl - 07-18-2023

Zeneffect Wrote:Full notes:
Starline, -.0020 shoulder - annealed
1.5815 case length
Mighty armory die that the owner reworked for me because of issues with my first one
Hornady seating die with micrometer adjustment
Mec marksman press
Bullet seating saw 3 turns before completion
Cbto variance round to round is kept under .002"
Neolube case neck
Cci primer that is gold colored, not the rose gold colored ones
Lot of lvr doesn't really matter
Charge weight within .006gn variance
Use a vld chamfer
Deburr flash holes... seriously. Starline gave me a nice little pile of shavings when I first prepped them.
No crimp
Bullets sorted to within .1gn
Cases sort of sorted... I don't trust water method to be as precise as i want anymore so ???? Close enough I suppose.

And this is why I will not be able to duplicate these results. Smile

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - 603Country - 07-18-2023

Heck, I couldn’t duplicate those results even if I had his gun and ammo.

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - Zeneffect - 07-18-2023

You probably could. The addage of "the barrel will outshoot me" is mostly a lie spread by manufacturers to hide the fact that their barrels aren't that great. My personal experience is, people who think they can't shoot get put behind this rifle and they can put down .5moa or better consistently. Manufacturers have engraved self doubt which limits results. I promise, you are better than you think. Another point is, where I choose to put down the group. Most people will be tempted to shoot at the center, I choose the corners as the aim point is infinitely finer resulting in less shooter variability. Aim small, shoot small is the truth.


As far as neolube the necks... its the same as powdered graphite except in a liquid/alcohol carrier. Q-tip and wipe it into the case neck and let it dry, don't do any more than 3 cases before re-wetting as the stuff dries really fast. I prefer the liquid lube as it's less messy than graphite and the resulting coating is more consistent.

Edit

This is just a little overspill on the outside that has been handled a bit, but you get an idea of what kind of coating it leaves inside.

[Image: 20230718-215059.jpg]

Also... I decided NOT to run the chambering test at home because safety and cops if things go sideways. I'll do it at the range in the morning before work.

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - Harpoon1 - 07-20-2023

Zen,

Dude! That is lights out good! Holy cow, never seen anything like it! Good for you, that is impressive!

And with the Mighty Grendel! Cool

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - LRRPF52 - 07-20-2023

That’s a legit 1175yd load at sea level, 1275yd at 4400ft, and 1400yd at 6300ft assuming 80deg F.

I’ve always loved the 130gr class from Berger. 130gr VLD is my go-to in the .260 Rem. gasser. Everyone told me it wouldn’t shoot, but it’s a laser. You’re only losing 200yds to my 22” .260 Rem, both of which are supersonic well past 1100-1400yds.

I wonder if you could at least get .75 MOA using this approach with the 130gr Nosler RDF. BC on the 130 RDF is G1 .615/.307 G7.

Is there enough data to support the Neolube contributing to lower SD? Your SD of 4.3 is really exceptional for a gas gun.

Is it just me or is 30.3gr of LVR + Berger 130gr OTM just pure magic? - Zeneffect - 07-20-2023

I guess it depends on who you ask as "enough data" is kind of subjective. A closing door is enough data for evidence of ghosts to some people.

I will say this, in my opinion my data supports it, all data that I have seen says that it does as well. I dont have a way to measure bullet seating force, but every test I have seen shows greater consistency and lower seating effort/pressure. Those are the things that I attribute to the lower sd/es... the lube just facilitates getting there. im using neolube because its readily available, and not nearly as messy as the graphite i used to use. I will admit I am not a scientist and didnt adhere to strictest scientific standards of methodology to eliminate variability to test the effects of just the neck lube exclusively... then again neither did anyone else that presented data, though they have done it to a better degree than I could. (actual numbers vs the "butt dyno" on seating force, labradar vs magnetospeed)

Between the hybrid ar otm, vld, eld, gt, and gtx the hybrid ar otm are the fastest from a 22" by 50-80fps. Accuracy, the norma 130 gt is really close but it's harder to get those going fast enough, you have to ignore mag length to get to what the bergers can do. I haven't tried the noslers as their components are usually cost prohibitive to run for my needs, but if they shoot well and can approach 2500fps that BC is super super tempting. My window mag from cavity back bullets arrived and I still haven't tried it out. Getting .75 or better shouldn't really be a problem as group size IS tunable. Getting the speed + es/sd that I want out of it is safely the trick. Grendel case capacity vs maximum allowable pressure is right on that line of just enough, and just a hair not enough. The things we could do with just 1 or 2 more grains of powder, or a 60k limit would be life changing... 28" performance from a 20" barrel.