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Winchester Staball Match - Printable Version

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Winchester Staball Match - Zeneffect - 01-04-2023

Anyone got the inside scoop?

https://shop.hodgdon.com/winchester-staball-match/

Wondering where this lands in the burn rate charts. The description is appealing

Winchester Staball Match - A.D.D. AR - 01-04-2023

Zen- on accurate shooter forum they say new staball match on the burn chart is #112. (varget is 110 and BLC2 is 113)
they have the new staball HD is #162 (retumbo is 161.)

looks pretty interesting if it really is "temp stable"
-mike

Winchester Staball Match - Harpoon1 - 01-04-2023

Zeneffect Wrote:Anyone got the inside scoop?

https://shop.hodgdon.com/winchester-staball-match/

Wondering where this lands in the burn rate charts. The description is appealing

Between Reloader 17 and 19. Hybrid 100V is 128 and Staball is 129 on the Hodgdon burn rate chart.

Winchester Staball Match - Lemonaid - 01-05-2023

I was going to ask who is going to try staball match first.
Here is a burn rate chart to bookmark. https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023-burn-rate-chart.pdf
There is load data posted on Discord for .308, .223, and 6 Arc. The source wasn't in that post but likely the new Hodgdon load manual.

Winchester Staball Match - Fess - 01-05-2023

I have begun to think that the introduction of specifically blended powders like Leverevolution and CFE223 have made the burn rate chart a little less useful. Most of my knowledge is about the 30-30 where the fastest load is often Leverevolution, but the "old faithful" is IMR 3031. On the Hodgdon/IMR/Accurate burn rate chart, 3031 is at 85 and Leverevolution is WAY farther down the list at 118. Although part of that has to do with the packing density of the powder (a heavier weight of LE fits in the case), there is more at play here.

I know that technically all powders are blends, but some of the new ones seem to be different to create what Hornady calls a more "progressive" (ie. flatter) pressure curve. I suspect that other powder manufacturers are now playing the same game.

Winchester Staball Match - Zeneffect - 01-05-2023

seeing where its at in the burn rate chart, ill be trying some for sure. looks like it should be good for the 120s and 123s based on where its sitting. reloader 15.5 looks interesting as well.

Winchester Staball Match - StoneHendge - 01-07-2023

FWIW, I tried it with 105s in 6 ARC. Gave Varget like speeds without Varget like accuracy or SDs. I had bought it to try in 6.5 CM but couldn't get SDs below 20.

Winchester Staball Match - Zeneffect - 01-16-2023

Ordered 2# of staball match, and 2# of varget to compare them. I plan to test in 6.5 grendel and .223 remington.

Winchester Staball Match - Zeneffect - 01-19-2023

expecting this to arrive on monday

what do you guys want to see from it? I have choices.

130gr Hornady ELDM
130gr Norma GT
130gr Berger AR OTM
130gr Berger VLD
135gr Hornady A-Tip
123gr Hornady ELDM
123gr Hornady BTHP
120gr Hornday ELDM
120gr Sierra Match King
120gr Maker T-Rex
108gr Lapua Scenar
85gr Sierra Varminter

I will be doing the initial load development for at least 1x 130gr projectile and 1x in the 120-123gr range. I'll let you guys choose which.

rifle(s) will be 22" criterion + jp bolt w/ sharps carrier. both chambers and distance to lands are within .001 of each other so if i break something, i keep going. maybe I get 2 birds out of this and break a bolt so i have an excuse to get the sharps s7 one and try to break it.

groups to be captured and measured by ballistix app. velocity to be recorded with magnetospeed. ive been searching and searching and not seeing a single bit of load data or groups or even real discussion regarding this new powder and Grendel so its a whole new world. I am still digging looking for a quasi-powder fill correlation vs another powder (offset or not i dont care so long as the relationship appears consistent) and on the high end it seems to fill similar to 2520 or blc2, but on the low end not at all... also not really seeing any data regarding a compressed load so im guessing thats probably going to be a no-no with this powder. I *think* since the expected velocity is pretty similar to varget I will let the chrono tell me where to stop... my only real question is where to begin.

Winchester Staball Match - LRRPF52 - 01-19-2023

130gr ELD-M and 130gr Berger AR Hybrid

123gr ELD-M

I thought there were some threads on this powder before. Did you do a search with the CSE?

Winchester Staball Match - Zeneffect - 01-19-2023

staball match is different than staball 6.5. i know there are threads on 6.5 but afik match is new 2023 powder release. ive put a good few hours into searching, if it is as simple as use another search engine then its just verification that i am indeed a moron.

hodgon is the only load data i can find and closest i can get is 6mm arc so im looking and running math there vs grendel to figure out a starting charge, then will monitor the chrono on the way up while still watching the brass (as useless as it might be, my rational is there is a slim chance overpressure occurs well below expected velocity and if im only watching the chrono i wont catch it early enough)

varget will be my control group for velocity so i know where my relative speed limits are as this is a well known powder with predictable characteristics.

6mm arc info

[Image: Screenshot-20230119-093531-Hodgdon-Reloading-Manual.jpg]

*edit*

ok just ran a bunch of numbers through my head and I think I can get away with starting at 26.3gr and working up from there for both 123 and 130gr. someone please tell me if this looks wrong or dangerous. midsouth put out a video that shows a picture of the stuff, and i must say it looks strange to me.

Winchester Staball Match - stonehog - 01-19-2023

Interested in the 130 and 120-123s primarily. I've been looking at this release - it would be great if this one is accurate with low SDs. I have good supply of SW Match Rifle and LeverEvolution - two current faves, so it will be interesting to see if this has similar velocity/pressure numbers.

Winchester Staball Match - Zeneffect - 01-19-2023

based on the info i can gather, it wont have the same velocity as lvr. the rest is a complete unknown but from every other cartridge i should expect varget like velocity +-30fps

Winchester Staball Match - StoneHendge - 01-20-2023

Based on the ARC data, I'd wager you'll safely max out in the mid 2400s with 123s in a 22".

Winchester Staball Match - Zeneffect - 01-20-2023

If the 22 likes it, I'll try it in the 28" to see what it does with a little barrel length behind it. I would really like to reserve the 8208 I have for the 120gr smk and find something else for the 123eld. Throwing the dice to see if I come up lucky

Winchester Staball Match - Harpoon1 - 02-02-2023

https://youtu.be/0C9j4uKnFt4

Winchester Staball Match - Zeneffect - 02-02-2023

Harpoon1 Wrote:https://youtu.be/0C9j4uKnFt4

thanks

Im working up a load on paper and will have it realized and shot by this weekend. I discovered Mel's thread about the 135gr a-tip + ppv + 28" barrel and it so happens i have that exact combo and a need for high accuracy over distance so my main focus will be developing a load there first.

test setup:

22" criterion hbar 1:8
magnetospeed on a pic mounted mk machining bayonet (not attached directly to barrel)

I have 2# of the stuff and have only looked at it. Looks like this:
[Image: IMG-20230123-150028-01.jpg]

No weird green looking stuff like in the midsouth picture/video. 2 distinct grain sizes. One is a flattened disc, the other is a small ball. As the 2 are clearly a different size and probably a different density i would imagine there would be some settling within the container. Nothing a good shake cant fix, but I wonder about how good that can is at resisting electrostatic discharge.

Winchester Staball Match - Harpoon1 - 02-02-2023

I just grabbed a keg of it from PV. W748 is right there in the Varget burn rate too, will be interesting to see the difference.

Winchester Staball Match - Zeneffect - 02-11-2023

Didn't get around to loading a few up until now. Hitting range in the morning with the magnetospeed

123gr ELDM
5x of 26.9-27.8 in .3gr steps.
2.26 COAL
CCI 41
New starline brass

[Image: 20230210-201848.jpg]

Winchester Staball Match - Zeneffect - 02-11-2023

Well, what a mixed bag of results.

Velocity... needs a lot more powder
Sd... respectable
Accuracy.... not there

Need to explore this more as the consistent sd across the tested range is encouraging

I'll post up pics in a second. Zero issues so far, needs more than 27.8gr of powder FOR SURE (max I tested today, trying to not blow myself up)
27.8 gave me 2258fps

Sd is 5, es 12 5 shots.

Lowest charge was 26.9 which produced 2193fps. Charge scaling looks like roughly 20fps for every .3gr