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+--- Thread: Talk me out of 16 Grendel (/showthread.php?tid=25206)
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Talk me out of 16 Grendel - radar97 - 12-12-2022
Heavily considering going to a 16 in my 6.5G hunting rifle. It currently sports a 18 Ballistic Advantage SPR barrel. It shoots well and I didnt mind the length until I got my suppressor in. My biggest complaint is the weight. 39.3 oz is a pretty heavy sucker for a non bench gun. Overall Im looking to shed some weight and the shorter length will be handier with suppressor. I know I dont lose much performance going to 16 but when I first built the rifle I settled on 18 to squeeze as much speed out as I could while still being somewhat handy. Thoughts and opinions would help
I also like the rifle length gas on the 18. If I go 16 with intermediate would I for sure need adjustable gas block? This rifle will be suppressed 100% of the time
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - biodsl - 12-12-2022
I doubt anyone will argue that a 16" barrel isn't just fine for hunting. A Monster 16" will drop 10 ounces and move the weight toward the rear. And the price is right.
https://www.sixfiveoutfitters.com/product/65g-16/
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - Jake TN - 12-12-2022
If you want a full time suppressed hunter, I would go shorter. Think more of the 10.5-12.5 for good balance with a suppressor unless your suppressor is extremely light weight. I too had an 18 inch upper. Hunting with my dead air sandman short made the gun too front end heavy for off hand shots. I already have an 11.5 inch Sbr (5.56) and with the can on the end it is nicely balanced. Off hand quick 200 yard shots at man size target are easy. I decided to go with a Grendel 12.5 inch upper myself. Just my opinion. I would put your can on a 16 inch come and test before committing. Just one mans opinion.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - radar97 - 12-12-2022
With all the pistol brace stuff going on I think Im going to stay away from a 12 unless I make the move to sbr.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - LRRPF52 - 12-12-2022
You can do 13.7-14.5" with a pinned and welded muzzle device if youre worried about that, depending on what type of can you have.
For 16 vs 18 in my barrels, it seems like rifling type is more deterministic than the 2 of difference in length.
There are also lightweight suppressors on the market, like TBAC and anyone that makes good Ti cans.
You can go with a standard port and use a Bootleg Adjustable Gas carrier, which is what I do.
Spring it heavier on the back end with Springco Red if using a carbine RET.
For barrels, the AA Enfield-rifled pipes seem to generate a bit more velocity, as do the Easy Engraving ones from the forum group buys done by Faxon and Green Mountain/SixFive Outfitters.
My 12 Grendel does 2400fps with Federal Factory 120gr OTM, over a large sample size average over the chrono.
You could order a 14.5 from SixFive and P&W.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - LRRPF52 - 12-12-2022
One thing with all of the 16 Grendels I have built and tested is that they handle really nicely, as long as the port is cut correctly at no more than .076 (assuming no adj gas).
The little AA fluted barrels are pussycats in that regard, as is this Lilja Wasp profile.
The Lilja Wasp build handles very well, nice and light but with a heavier for end for exceptional accuracy.
Its a shame that I dont shoot it, but I go on 3yr+ binges of only spending time with one particular barrel length/Grendel.
I started out shooting my 16 AA for a while, then the Lilja 17.6, and then the 12 suppressed. I still feel like spending more time with the 12 because Ive only shot it out to 800yds regularly since 2018, and still havent hand-loaded for it with some of the other high BC bullets I need to test.
After that, Im going to be focused on my 10.5 Criterion PDW build (not pictured).
![[Image: (edited)_fullsizeoutput_105_zpsgituaykh....fit=bounds]](https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j422/LRRPF52/(edited)_fullsizeoutput_105_zpsgituaykh.jpeg?width=590&height=590&fit=bounds)
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - CJW - 12-12-2022
I have 4 Grendel uppers all 18 or 20 in ..Wish like heck I had a 16 inch.
Big mistake on my part, my guns are heavy in the field.
99% of my hunting shots are under 100 yards.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - LRRPF52 - 12-12-2022
That 16 Lilja Wasp build has a .650 diameter barrel under the handguard, steps up to .750, then .740 to the muzzle.
Weight without optics for the 16 Lilja is 6lbs 5oz, which is exceptional for a little hunter.
There arent any barrel profiles available for 6.5 Grendel like that from anyone that are regularly-produced.
I got that one through the original Lilja group buy, and its surprisingly-accurate for how light it is.
The AA fluted Grendel barrels are very light and handy though.
About 6-7 years ago, I built a lot of AA 16 fluted Grendels for people and every one of them handled like a pussycat in terms of recoil, muzzle climb, and cycling of the action. Most would shoot .75-1" 3rd groups with 120gr PPU and 123gr Hornady, which is more than ideal for hunting and most intermediate range recreational target work.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - radar97 - 12-13-2022
The rifle will be suppressed 99% of the time with the 1% being in storage. The 18 isnt too cumbersome but with my Nomad 30 on the end + Xeno adapter it gets a little too long for my tastes. Ive got bolt rifles that are long and I like the handiness of the ar platform. I had full intentions of building a 12-12.5 Grendel pistol but with the uncertainty of the brace situation I dont want to be hung out to dry on that. Im not a long range shooter by any means. 300-350 is a stretch for me and about as far as I am comfortable in making a shot. Most come in well under that mark. I went with the 18 to squeeze out as much potential as possible without fully understanding the capabilities of the Grendel especially in short packages. Now Im looking to shed weight and length without taking a major step back in performance.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - radar97 - 12-13-2022
Ideally Id keep the 18 and build or buy a 12 to fill both roles. But I could see myself grabbing that 12 most of the time while the 18 collects dust.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - LRRPF52 - 12-13-2022
radar97 Wrote:Ideally Id keep the 18 and build or buy a 12 to fill both roles. But I could see myself grabbing that 12 most of the time while the 18 collects dust.
Thats basically whats been happening, though I really like how my 17.6 Lilja handles as well.
My kids like shooting, so Im working up to the point where we can all get on-line and do simultaneous shots on steel at long range with multiple Grendels.
Have the Grendels, but just need to train the kids up some more as theyre still pretty young.
Were going through the .22LR stages right now still.
I need a large diameter can for the 10.5 Grendel now.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - sundowner - 12-14-2022
A 16" makes a great carring gun in the woods or in the fields , I have 2 of them with one being suppressed .
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - Pootyng - 12-21-2022
I started on the same route but with a 20 BA barrel. It shoots amazing but like you I wanted something handier so I went with a 16 Brian Hanson BA barrel and I am very satisfied. Both barrels shoot every weight bullet from 123-90gr exceptionally well. I was back and forth about sbr or brace because for hunting 350 yards would be long for my area and the 12-12.5 would cover that. If youre shooting with a suppressor whats one more stamp for a 12-12.5 sbr? Good luck.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - Bonas - 12-21-2022
Whatever you do, be patient, and do it right.
Weight and length are key for hunting rifles. I'd build a pistol and put a 12.5" on it. SBR it, and keep it in pistol configuration while you wait for the stamp.
My second choice would be a pin/weld for the shortest I could go with whatever attachment system you use.
To get a really light profile, you might have to have a true custom finisher turn a blank for you. Hunting season is almost over, so if you order it now, you'll have it for next year.
You'll barely notice the length difference between 16" and 18." I'd plan on an adjustable gas block (or other means to control gas) since you're shooting suppressed.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - jrm850 - 01-03-2023
Re: Gas system length...
I was in the same boat wanting a shorter barrel for a suppressor. I cut a 20" psa barrel that did not shoot particularly well down to 16" just because it was there. With an omega 300 direct mounted, the length is just on the edge of what I would call handy. However, the best part of the experiment was finding out that I love the rifle length gas system on the 16". It is such a smooth shooter and has been very reliable. The gas block was adjusted without a suppressor to eject just past 3 o'clock. With the suppressor installed it only moved a few degrees forward. It won't save you much weight by chopping your heavy profile 2", but if length is the issue, Don't let the gas tube length scare you away from cutting yours down.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - BlogSarge - 01-04-2023
An option would be to get a upper from SWS Rifles. Itll have their integrally suppressed barrel thatll be 18-24 overall length, including 6 of baffle stack. So, just a one tax stamp gun without the SBR notification issues when traveling out of state.
We have five of their rifles at work and all have been superbly reliable and accurate.
https://www.swsrifles.com/ar-15-ar-10-semi-autos/
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - radar97 - 03-24-2023
Been a while but I sold my 18"! Once having my mind made on a pin/weld 14.5" Lilja from Sixsigma or a monster logo barrel I'm now trying to decide if I would rather just sbr this lower rather than pin and weld or go 16" to avoid it altogether. I'm not really wanting to put down another $200 to sbr but with one suppressor on hand and another in jail I'm already in the NFA game.
Like I mentioned before I don't plan on shooting this rifle without my Nomad and I'm pretty set on using xeno. So the worry of a muzzle device not being viable down the road is pretty much eliminated. The receivers and handguard are all sticking together as they were bought as a set and I'm not changing them out. My biggest holdup with p/w is the possibility of wanting to swap in a 5.56 barrel if I ever want to sell the rifle/receivers down the road or if we come to another ammo dilemma that makes Grendel temporarily obsolete.
I know that the 14.5" once pinned is not a whole lot shorter than a 16". But I'm wanting to be as short as possible with suppressor.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - radar97 - 03-24-2023
Bonas Wrote:Whatever you do, be patient, and do it right.
Weight and length are key for hunting rifles. I'd build a pistol and put a 12.5" on it. SBR it, and keep it in pistol configuration while you wait for the stamp.
My second choice would be a pin/weld for the shortest I could go with whatever attachment system you use.
To get a really light profile, you might have to have a true custom finisher turn a blank for you. Hunting season is almost over, so if you order it now, you'll have it for next year.
You'll barely notice the length difference between 16" and 18." I'd plan on an adjustable gas block (or other means to control gas) since you're shooting suppressed.
I'm doing some of my most patient work currently. This will be the second iteration of this rifle and it is just about back from full cerakote so I'm trying to make a good decision. I was nearly dead set on 14.5" and I'm still very very attracted to the idea.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - drewthebrave - 03-25-2023
My thoughts: I have owned 16" and 18" barrels and if I was to start again today with what I know now, I'd build around a 14.5" pinned & welded to 16". My 18" Alexander Arms barrel is fluted, so it handles great, but I'm only 5'8" which means it does get caught on brush a bit more than I'd like during my hunting trips. A 14.5" would give me the expansion I need at realistic hunting distances and would keep the package enough shorter to make a noticeable difference.
The AA barrel has been dead nuts reliable and holds ~1 MOA when I do my part, so I'm on no hurry to replace it. When I eventually shoot it out, I'll be looking at the 14.5" from SixFiveOutfitters to replace it.
Talk me out of 16 Grendel - bigdaddyjak - 03-25-2023
Even if you have a 16 barrel with a muzzle device you typically end up with 18 or more . A monster 12 barrel with a suppressor pin and welded , will more than likely give you 16 barrel length (possibly a bit more) . And your %100 legal . Plenty of length for 300 yards