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120 class powders - Dt219 - 08-04-2022
Lets just say a man has 3lbs of xbr, 2lbs of H4895, and 1lb of AR comp. What would you start with and why ? 20 barrel would like to at least get to 2450fps. Have not seen any of these powders in some time so once gone thats it for some time
120 class powders - DIANEB - 08-04-2022
Benchmark and A2520 work great with the 120 ELD's in both my Grendel's...
120 class powders - Dt219 - 08-04-2022
I do have benchmark. I did assume it was a fuzz to fast for the 120s Getting any velocity ?
120 class powders - mdram - 08-04-2022
Dt219 Wrote:Lets just say a man has 3lbs of xbr, 2lbs of H4895, and 1lb of AR comp. What would you start with and why ? 20 barrel would like to at least get to 2450fps. Have not seen any of these powders in some time so once gone thats it for some time
xbr and arcomp both give me 2450 from a 20" with 123gr
120 class powders - grayfox - 08-04-2022
+1 on the ar comp and xbr.
with 3# of the xbr I would use that.
Just work up be watchful. You should get 2450, maybe up to 2475 look for the node.
120 class powders - mdram - 08-04-2022
grayfox Wrote:+1 on the ar comp and xbr.
with 3# of the xbr I would use that.
Just work up be watchful. You should get 2450, maybe up to 2475 look for the node.
just check, at max i was over 2500, but 2450 range was my best groupings
120 class powders - outbreaker - 08-04-2022
My first choices are
1. Benchmark (if you can find it) due to temp stability and accuracy
2. TAC Just as accurate as benchmark with a little less temp stability
120 class powders - EastTNHunter - 08-04-2022
Sounds like youve got several good choices. All of those (including Benchmark) will work great. Id lean towards H4895 or Benchmark due to theoretical temp stability, but thats just theoretical
120 class powders - Klem - 08-04-2022
Dt,
AR-Comp will give the most velocity and with 100% powder burnt out of those three powders at max peak pressure, with a 120 or heavier bullet, in a 20" barrel. H4895 will be close behind it but slightly lesser velocity because it is a single-based powder (Comp is double-based). In third place is the fastest burning powder, XBR which will max out at the slowest velocity.
All will give the velocity you are looking for before reaching peak pressure or full case.
XBR and 4198 are single-based powders so should be more temp stable than Comp, but that's only the theory and might not be the case when you use them.
Your barrel might prefer something other than the theoretical best.
120 class powders - dexdog - 08-04-2022
In addition to ARComp, Benchmark and 8208xbr, I have had good groups with VV N530 using a 120 SMK in my Howa 1500 mini HB. The Vhthavouri reloading page says starting load of 22.7 gr for the 123gr Lapua Scenar, with a max of 25.0gr. I have done some testing in my Howa 1500 mini HB and settled on 23.5 gr N530 as most accurate. The 23.5gr gave me a velocity of 2360 using a Labradar at about 80 F, elevation 400 feet MSL. I also use Benchmark, but have had best results with lighter bullets in the 85 to 107 grain range
120 class powders - Dt219 - 08-04-2022
Ok here goes some results. I loaded the 120eldm with a ladder of ar comp. This bullet is touching the lands of my 20 PF criterion at 1.645 cbto, and 2.190 coal. So I loaded .020 off them which was 1.625 cbto. I started my ladder at 26.0 in .2 increments and went to 26.8. Its a short ladder I know because i could hear powder being compressed for sure at 26.6 so being on the uneasy side I stopped at 26.8. Anyways temperature was 90 and very humid, velocities was as follows
26.0 - 2417
26.2 - 2418
26.4 - 2443
26.6 - 2447
26.8 - 2457
I split the middle and loaded 26.6. Speeds was 2429, 2435, 2427. Only a 3 shot Group and was roughly 1 es of 8, sd of 4. Couple of questions.
1. I noticed my speeds was up there for a low charge. Was it because the load was compressed ?
2. Would you run a seating depth test going closer to the lands to help with the compression ?
3. Pick a different bullet ?
Thanks
120 class powders - Klem - 08-04-2022
Dt,
What does 1.625 refer to? COAL should be about 2.3" for this calibre (base-to-tip length).
If 1.625 is using the Hornady B350 insert then be aware those inserts are mass produced and your internal diameter will likely be slightly different to everyone else's. It makes it risky comparing metrics on the Forum this way.
120 class powders - grayfox - 08-04-2022
A 120, like that eldm, is a tangent ogive, more "stubby" so can't load it as long as say a 123 bullet, Eldm or sst.
120 class powders - LRRPF52 - 08-04-2022
Dt219 Wrote:Ok here goes some results. I loaded the 120eldm with a ladder of ar comp. This bullet is touching the lands of my 20 PF criterion at 1.645 cbto, and 2.190 coal. So I loaded .020 off them which was 1.625. I started my ladder at 26.0 in .2 increments and went to 26.8. Its a short ladder I know because i could hear powder being compressed for sure at 26.6 so being on the uneasy side I stopped at 26.8. Anyways temperature was 90 and very humid, velocities was as follows
26.0 - 2417
26.2 - 2418
26.4 - 2443
26.6 - 2447
26.8 - 2457
I split the middle and loaded 26.6. Speeds was 2429, 2435, 2427. Only a 3 shot Group and was roughly 1 es of 8, sd of 4. Couple of questions.
1. I noticed my speeds was up there for a low charge. Was it because the load was compressed ?
2. Would you run a seating depth test going closer to the lands to help with the compression ?
3. Pick a different bullet ?
Thanks
120gr ELD-M is meant for 6.5CM or chambers with parallel freebore, not the compound throat of the 6.5 Grendel SAAMI chamber.
123gr ELD-M is your friend for 6.5 Grendel. Notice how short your COL is with the 120gr ELD-M.
Your speeds are about where I would expect them to be for a 20 with that charge weight, based on numerous published loads as reference.
120 class powders - myrifle - 08-04-2022
Dt219 Wrote:Ok here goes some results. I loaded the 120eldm with a ladder of ar comp. This bullet is touching the lands of my 20 PF criterion at 1.645 cbto, and 2.190 coal. So I loaded .020 off them which was 1.625. I started my ladder at 26.0 in .2 increments and went to 26.8. Its a short ladder I know because i could hear powder being compressed for sure at 26.6 so being on the uneasy side I stopped at 26.8. Anyways temperature was 90 and very humid, velocities was as follows
26.0 - 2417
26.2 - 2418
26.4 - 2443
26.6 - 2447
26.8 - 2457
I split the middle and loaded 26.6. Speeds was 2429, 2435, 2427. Only a 3 shot Group and was roughly 1 es of 8, sd of 4. Couple of questions.
1. I noticed my speeds was up there for a low charge. Was it because the load was compressed ?
2. Would you run a seating depth test going closer to the lands to help with the compression ?
3. Pick a different bullet ?
Thanks
Yes the speed is up because the powder is compressed.
With the powder compressed, you dont have any room too change seating depth, so you will have too leave the load as is.
If you move towards the lands. One of two things will happen. You will either lose a few fps and the group will open or possible close but more then likely your going to spike the pressure.
120 class powders - StoneHendge - 08-04-2022
I'd start with XBR solely because it is a powder you're most likely to be able to get more of if you find a load you like. It pops up a little bit more than H4895. I don't think I've seen AR Comp or any Swedish powder since the Ukraine war began. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has.
120 class powders - LRRPF52 - 08-04-2022
Out of all those, I think I would lean on H4895.
If you use 8208XBR and AR Comp, work up carefully and dont exceed any book values.
Where you end up is going to be determined by your throat and what components you use.
SDs and stability is great with both AR Comp and 8208 XBR, but they are on the fast end for 120gr class in Grendel, so there is a ceiling you can hit rather quickly with them.
They are superb under a 107gr SMK or TMK.
If they were more forgiving under 120gr class, they would be my go-to there, but Im steered into using ball powders because of that.
For my uses, I just care about hitting 12 steel plates out to 800-1000yds. CFE223 has been great for me so far for that.
120 class powders - Dt219 - 08-04-2022
Yes the hornady bullet comparator tool was used. I do not use the hornady tool that uses a threaded case to measure contact with the lands. How I get my coal and cbto measurements is I take a fired case, bump the shoulder back .003 and use blue lock tight smeared in the neck to hold the bullet in place once its pushed into my chamber. Upon research my cbto and overall length is shorter than most other chambers I have seen posted on the forum with this particular bullet . I did just recheck the coal with this bullet to the lands and i got 2.185 this time. So within .005
120 class powders - Dt219 - 08-04-2022
Thank you for that information. I knew that bullet would be seated short just didnt think it would be compressed at that low of a charge. First loadings with ar comp
120 class powders - Dt219 - 08-05-2022
It doesnt seem unusually short chambered does it ?