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+--- Thread: >>the 6arc<< (/showthread.php?tid=24739)
>>the 6arc<< - Kosh65 - 07-23-2022
Whos shooting one?? I would like to here feedback of both pros and cons. Are there any benefits (other than the obvious capability to use a lighter bullets) over the Grendel?
The reason I ask is Im considering another custom bolt gun build. Mainly for the chance to shoot those light boolits such as the 65gr. V-Max or 70gr. Blitzing on prairie dogs. But still be able to shoot 100gr to 110s for the occasional deer. Or is the Grendel with 90s capable of being as destructive on the little varmints? I have NO experience using these light boolits in my Grendel yet. Just not sure if I can achieve a high enough velocity? My current Grendel is a 24, but if I do another ..be it an ARC or Grendel, a 26 or possibly even a 28 will be the route I go.
Thanks for any feedback, Kosh65
Side note: I realize that the ARC was designed to shoot heavier 6mm boolits from a gas gun . But as with most cartridges, some shooters just like to experiment. lol
>>the 6arc<< - myrifle - 07-23-2022
I hit 3200 fps safely in my cz 527 bolt grendel with its 25.4 inch barrel and 85 grain maker trex all copper bullets.
If I was wanting a 6mm grendel variant. I would drop the cash for the new 6arc howa mini in the stalker version with its carbon stock and then add the oregansmithing hinged floor plate mag system and its 2.450 coal length mag.
>>the 6arc<< - kmon - 07-23-2022
Might find some more info on the Arc on a forum started by the owner of this forum https://6mmarc.com
>>the 6arc<< - SDguy - 08-04-2022
Kosh65 Wrote:Whos shooting one?? I would like to here feedback of both pros and cons. Are there any benefits (other than the obvious capability to use a lighter bullets) over the Grendel?
The reason I ask is Im considering another custom bolt gun build. Mainly for the chance to shoot those light boolits such as the 65gr. V-Max or 70gr. Blitzing on prairie dogs. But still be able to shoot 100gr to 110s for the occasional deer. Or is the Grendel with 90s capable of being as destructive on the little varmints? I have NO experience using these light boolits in my Grendel yet. Just not sure if I can achieve a high enough velocity? My current Grendel is a 24, but if I do another ..be it an ARC or Grendel, a 26 or possibly even a 28 will be the route I go.
Thanks for any feedback, Kosh65
Side note: I realize that the ARC was designed to shoot heavier 6mm boolits from a gas gun . But as with most cartridges, some shooters just like to experiment. lol
I am liking my CZ 527 rebarreled to 6mm ARC in a big way. Although Our goals seem very different as my interest in light bullets has been very minimal at least thus far.
My goal was to have a CZ 527 chambered for a very capable 6mm deer cartridge. Im not quite a precision rifle kind of a guy though I certainly appreciate an accurate rifle. I have experimented with 80 to 90 grain all copper hunting bullets, 100 grain spire points 103 grain ELDX & 108 grain Berger Elite Hunter. & have more bullets to experiment with. Thus far the 108 grain Elite hunter has performed best for me with little fuss.
Suppose I question if the 6mm ARC is the cartridge you are wanting. Suppose Id likely consider a slower twist & perhaps a shorter throat for the shorter bullets you are considering. Seems 6ppc may be more so what you are needing for the bullets in your list, Sure you may get by with 6mm ARC & the lighter bullets though diffrent twist rates & throat configuration may likely benefit your bullet considerations.
>>the 6arc<< - Lemonaid - 08-05-2022
I have a Savage Switchback (Sportsman Warehouse) in 6 ARC. For barrel break in and fire forming brass I chose Hornady 65 V-max and Hornady 105 hpbt both with CFE 223. It did very well with both, some sub 1/2 inch 5 shot groups for each. I did not clean any for the 80 rounds that range session. Very little copper residue when cleaned. This is my new break in method.
>>the 6arc<< - StoneHendge - 08-05-2022
With 70 grain bullets, I get equal velocity between a 24" 6x45 P-Dogger and an 18" 243 LBC (which has slightly more case capacity than a 6 ARC). Both ARs. That should give you a good reference point on what to expect. I'm a big 6 ARC fan and like it over Grendel, but I'm sticking with the 6x45 for the filthy disease infested rodents. The hassles of ARC in the current environment (brass and powder choices) aren't worth the few extra fps.
>>the 6arc<< - Kosh65 - 08-05-2022
Thanks for the input thus far. All good info. Im in no hurry to do this potential project until Ive considered all avenues.
I just feel that the 6arc is the wave of the future (so to speak) with so much more components and load data to follow. I definitely dont want to go the way of a wildcat cartridge and all the fire forming case prep. Been there, done that.
SD; I am considering a slower twist rate. Maybe a 1:8 or even as slow as 1:9?
I used to shoot a .243AI with a 1:10 twist Krieger and it shot everything from 58gr. to a 105gr. really good. If I want to go heavier than that, I will choose to shoot my Grendel.
>>the 6arc<< - SDguy - 08-07-2022
Kosh65 Wrote:Thanks for the input thus far. All good info. Im in no hurry to do this potential project until Ive considered all avenues.
I just feel that the 6arc is the wave of the future (so to speak) with so much more components and load data to follow. I definitely dont want to go the way of a wildcat cartridge and all the fire forming case prep. Been there, done that.
SD; I am considering a slower twist rate. Maybe a 1:8 or even as slow as 1:9?
I used to shoot a .243AI with a 1:10 twist Krieger and it shot everything from 58gr. to a 105gr. really good. If I want to go heavier than that, I will choose to shoot my Grendel.
Thus far a bit of fire forming has been involved for me with the 6mm ARC. As I got in to this 6mm ARC brass dried up & 6mm arc ammo was getting pricer & not that available. Think I picked up 7 boxes of factory ammo.Factory ammo did not impress me with any of the loads in my rifle in terms of accuracy.
Suppose the factory ammo was interesting for comparison for my hand-loads to come.
I have done a fair bit of fire-forming & forming the likes of 6mmc was actually of interest to me. Lapua 220 Russian brass was readily available. 6.5 Grendel brass was not. So the natural thing for me to do was to pick up a hundred pieces of 220 Russian brass & try fire-forming.
Well the 220 russian conversion went well enough & produced some fine brass. Some were wondering why a fella would go through all those extra steps to fire-form 220 Russian when the conversion of 6.5 Grendel to 6mm ARC was a 1 step process plus trimming to length. As much as I like having the 6mm ARC brass with the 220 russian head stamp, those who scoffed were on to something.
Eventually I came across some 6.5 Grendel brass to convert, both Starline & Lapua & both produced some fine 6mm ARC brass as well with a lot less time & effort. As you might guess the Lapua was worth the extra price up front as the quality is simply top notch.
Point here is, if you should decide do go down this path B4 more brass suppliers have jumped on board with the 6mm ARC - Fire-forming from 6.5 Grendel is not that much extra effort IMHO.
Look forward to seeing what action you build a 6mm ARC on.
>>the 6arc<< - SDguy - 08-07-2022
IMHOI like being a miser with powder, while giving up relatively little velocity to the 6mm Creedmoor. If long barrel life means much to you 6mm ARC is a clear winner. If low recoil Is seen as an advantage then 6mm ARC could be for you.
Though if you are not building your rifle on a Mini action rifle then 6BR or 6 GT may be a better choice from my perspective.
>>the 6arc<< - Fess - 08-08-2022
Kosh, the main argument I have seen for keeping the faster twist is that monolithic bullets seem to open quicker when spun faster. Bullet stability is largely dependent on the RPM's of the bullet, so the speed the bullet is traveling when it leaves the barrel comes into play. The .243AI muzzle velocity is significantly higher than a 6mm ARC, so the ARC will require a faster twist to stabilize the same bullets.
If you go with a relatively slow twist barrel, please report back as to its performance, especially with 105's. Thanks
>>the 6arc<< - Kosh65 - 08-08-2022
SD; the rifle will most likely be built on a 700 SA. or a clone. Same as I did with my Grendel. Im not really a fan of the Mini actions and because Im a lefty, they arent available in left actions.
Fess; No plans to ever use monos for this particular rifle. Although I do have a couple hundred CBB 118 MKZs that Im itching to try in Grendel, when time allows.
And yes ..the .243AI was pushing 58gr. Vmax over 4100fps. Thats why I went with a slower twist (1:10) so I didnt spin the jacket off. Hornadys data shows velocities of 3600fps with a 58 vmax and a 24 tube. Ill be 2-4 longer than that. So possibly 3700?
Ill check with Hornady and see what the recommended minimum twist is for their 103 ELD-X.
>>the 6arc<< - SDguy - 08-13-2022
Kosh65 Wrote:SD; the rifle will most likely be built on a 700 SA. or a clone. Same as I did with my Grendel. Im not really a fan of the Mini actions and because Im a lefty, they arent available in left actions.
Fess; No plans to ever use monos for this particular rifle. Although I do have a couple hundred CBB 118 MKZs that Im itching to try in Grendel, when time allows.
And yes ..the .243AI was pushing 58gr. Vmax over 4100fps. Thats why I went with a slower twist (1:10) so I didnt spin the jacket off. Hornadys data shows velocities of 3600fps with a 58 vmax and a 24 tube. Ill be 2-4 longer than that. So possibly 3700?
Ill check with Hornady and see what the recommended minimum twist is for their 103 ELD-X.
I have seen similar Delmas come up in the past & unless you are wanting factory ammo the 6mm AEC docen't seem to add up for your situation. If you want barrel life 6BR is looking good If barrel life is not a big concern then 6mm Creedmoor is looking more to your liking. BTW currently 6mm Creedmoor components are easier to acquire.
Personally I really prefer the 6mm ARC though our reasoning seems different from my lens.
>>the 6arc<< - Kosh65 - 08-13-2022
Definitely be hand loaded. I havent purchased rifle ammo (other than rim fire) in 20 plus years. Im continually drawn to the arc and am quite certain that this is the route I will go. As I grow older, Ive really come to appreciate the less is more theorys. And that is exactly why I chose the Grendel in the first place. Just looking to shoot lighter bullets that a 90gr. 6.5.
>>the 6arc<< - LRRPF52 - 08-13-2022
For a primarily-purposed P-Dog blaster that can occasionally fill-in for deer, on a 700 SA, dont care about factory ammo?
I would look at my brass source first.
If you can get enough 6mm PPC or Grendel brass for a .441 head, you could pick 6mm, .257, or 6.5mm.
.257 and 6.5mm might be better for deer with the 117-140gr class of bullets.
.243 and .257 will have better BCs for the varmint bullets and lower weights available for screamers/vaporizers.
I really like quarter bore, so then projectile options is the next thing to look at.
With the 700 SA, Id be inclined to steer away from limiting myself to the 6mm ARC shoulder location and COL.
I would also look at the BR parent case as a consideration and run moderate/mild pressures for barrel life.
>>the 6arc<< - SDguy - 08-14-2022
Kosh65 Wrote:Definitely be hand loaded. I havent purchased rifle ammo (other than rim fire) in 20 plus years. Im continually drawn to the arc and am quite certain that this is the route I will go. As I grow older, Ive really come to appreciate the less is more theorys. And that is exactly why I chose the Grendel in the first place. Just looking to shoot lighter bullets that a 90gr. 6.5.
OK, Perhaps I am wrong. It is just that you seem to be looking at altering a .473 bolt face to .441 along with needing a magazine box alteration to get your short action to feed 6mm ARC hopefully reliable.
If you are sold on 6mm ARC Id encourage you to find a smoother / more compatible action. Something originally made to feed 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel or one of the PPC offerings would be a lot more straight forward. Howa mini or CZ 527 actions are the ones that stand out to me though there are certainly others.
CZ 527 was my choice, went from 7.62 x 39 to 6.5mm Grendel Then a barrel swap to 6mm ARC. Just hoping to keep your cost in check. Perhaps there is something I am overlooking.
>>the 6arc<< - Old Bob - 08-14-2022
Bolts with .441" bolt-faces for Remington 700 short actions are available from Pacific Tool & Gauge. No need to alter a .473" bolt-face. However, the magazine box is still something that needs to be worked out. I'm sure someone has figured it out. Perhaps someone will chime in. I've always thought the Remington Model 7 was more suited to 6.5 Grendel conversion... or 6mm ARC.
>>the 6arc<< - Kosh65 - 08-14-2022
Altering the bolt face from a .378 (223) is much easier than turning a bushing for a .473 Especially on a Rem. 700 as there is plenty of material left afterwards. Trueing the action, bolt face and recoil lug are all part of the process. I used a .308 BDL box instead and added a simple spacer to work with the shorter Grendel cartridge. Also a little milling of the bottom metal for proper and reliable feeding.
Im fortunate to have a great rifle builder and smith that lives so close.
If someone wants to PM an email or cell#, I will take a few pics and send them. You can post them if you want.
>>the 6arc<< - SDguy - 08-26-2022
myrifle Wrote:I hit 3200 fps safely in my cz 527 bolt grendel with its 25.4 inch barrel and 85 grain maker trex all copper bullets.
If I was wanting a 6mm grendel variant. I would drop the cash for the new 6arc howa mini in the stalker version with its carbon stock and then add the oregansmithing hinged floor plate mag system and its 2.450 coal length mag.
Great choice, excepting two considerations, from my perspective. 1st Howa has been very slow with the release. Second would be Id really prefer a longer barrel 22" to 24" would be nice.
Re-barreling a 7.62x39 or 6.5 Grendel may be a consideration. Brownells still offering barrels actions?