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+--- Thread: Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears (/showthread.php?tid=24695)
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - montana - 07-08-2022
Here is a follow up story about a fatal encounter with a Grizzly bear in my neck of the woods. The local news blamed the victim for using a toiletry bag to collect blue berries she had in her tent. The reality was she never had any food in her tent during the attack and there was food on a bike 10 feet away, which the bear completely ignored. It was a predatory attack and the bear spray was a total failure.. The older I become, the more I see disinformation being used to push narratives. Not one time has any local news agencies or any person with an official position recommend firearms for self defense, even though it is the most effective method for stopping bear attacks. I support using bear spray, but I also highly recommend carrying a firearm. If I'm ever surprised by a bear while sleeping, it will be my Gock 10mm I reach for first..Then I'll kick my dog in the back side for not giving me ample warning
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/07/bear-spray-fatality-camper-used-bear-spray-was-killed-by-grizzly-bear/?ct=t(RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN)#axzz7YS2W1uKo
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - Double Naught Spy - 07-08-2022
Wintergarten has definitely biased his data. He is anti bear spray, pro gun. Any bear attack where bear spray is used and a person still gets injured and bear spray is deemed a failure, even if the bear is driven away. When the same circumstances happen with a pistol, person is injured, but bear driven away, it was deemed successful. When a pistol is used, but the person fails to connect with the bear and still gets injured, it isn't considered a failure of the pistol. Or, when a gun is deployed but the person doesn't know how to use it, it is still not a failure of the gun. If bear spray is attempted to be used and fails to connect with the bear or when the person doesn't know how to use it, it is a failure of the spray.
He writes his articles to support his views.
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - montana - 07-08-2022
Double Naught Spy Wrote:Wintergarten has definitely biased his data. He is anti bear spray, pro gun. Any bear attack where bear spray is used and a person still gets injured and bear spray is deemed a failure, even if the bear is driven away. When the same circumstances happen with a pistol, person is injured, but bear driven away, it was deemed successful. When a pistol is used, but the person fails to connect with the bear and still gets injured, it isn't considered a failure of the pistol. Or, when a gun is deployed but the person doesn't know how to use it, it is still not a failure of the gun. If bear spray is attempted to be used and fails to connect with the bear or when the person doesn't know how to use it, it is a failure of the spray.
He writes his articles to support his views.
I have not seen Wintergarten suggest not to carry bear spray, but I do see his articles support the use of firearms where others lack. I do see the narrative not to use or even carry firearms as they place a higher value on the bear than the person which is ridiculous and immoral IMO..Like I tell people who hate firearms and hike through bear country, suit yourself, your more likely to be struck by lightning or killed by another person, but when you're being chewed on I bet you wished you had redundancy with your self defense...
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - grayfox - 07-08-2022
Right on. 2 is 1. 1 is none. And non-diversification, weak at best.
Bear spray fine, but Sam Colt -- and practice!!!
Both is better.
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - Harpoon1 - 07-09-2022
I always carry a pistol (DA 454 Casull) now while bowhunting in Grizzly country. Had a close encounter with one (20 yards) back in 92, bowhunting elk just SE of Yellowstone. All I had then was bear spray and all my parter had was a single action 44 Mag. Young and dumb!
They (the National Park Service) were pushing bear spray as hard as they could back then too. And I bought into their BS! Live and learn. Ok, well for someone who isnt competent with or doesnt like firearms, then fine but, for someone who is/does, bear spray is a piss poor second choice! IMO 
Doesnt matter what the wind direction is or how hard its blowing with a firearms! Bear spray is only useful at close range when the bear is already charging/attacking! At least with a gun you can try to turn them around further away with warning shots before it can escalate to that next level! The first thing you should do when shooting is, drop down to your knees and get on the same plane as the bear! Standing creates steep shooting angles the closer the bear gets. Making it way too easy to shoot in front of or over a charging animal! Get down on their plane to minimize those steep angle misses!
Edited: Maybe Im naive but, after the last couple of years, I cant believe anyone can believe anything the government says about anything!
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - Harpoon1 - 07-13-2022
Gonna offer this with out comment!
https://youtu.be/6l_34fVG-O8
Well, kind of ..! I would suggest turning it up to at least 1.25 audio speed! YMMV!
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - montana - 07-14-2022
Excellent video, just what I have been saying for many years. People from out of state don't understand how dangerous these animals can be and when they discourage people from carrying a firearm it really upsets me. I was false charged by one and it is quite the adrenaline rush when you are all alone miles from the trail head by yourself. I have had many encounters with Grizzlies as I have worked, played and lived in the woods all of my life. I have never been surprised by any dangerous animal "knock on wood" but it is always advisable to keep your head on a swivel .We are seeing Grizzlies and mountain lions in areas we have traditionally never seen before and they are becoming more and more brazen.. The 2ndA is important and I encourage any visitor to bear country to exercise that right..
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - Old Bob - 07-14-2022
I've never seen a grizzly in the wild but have had encounters with black bears on a few occasions. I'll be packin' in the woods for those critters too. I had one stalking me on a deer hunt once. I had stopped to take a leak. While doing my business, I thought I'd seen something move in the woods. It was a bear & it had it's nose right on the trail I had been following. When it dawned on me it was tracking my scent I picked up my rifle & let loose with a "YAHOO! HEY BEAR!". It stopped, raised up & spotted me. It woofed & took off back the direction it came from. I've had a couple of other close encounters but those bears weren't stalking me.
I was in a gold camp just north of Nome back in 2000 when a grizzly came into our main camp. I was away at a secondary mining site that day so I missed seeing my first wild grizz. We had one miner get chased on his ATV by an angry sow. We all carried 12 gauge shotguns when away from camp. I had a Rem 1100 with a tube full of slugs.
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - Dug Silverman - 08-11-2022
For perspective, ask a cop about how many angry dogs theyve seen sprayed, and how many ran right through the pain to continue the attack. Spray is nowhere near as effective as the daisy pickers would have you believe. It doesnt blind them, it doesnt incapacitate them. It surprises them with discomfort, and heres a little secret; the daisy pickers care a whole lot more about that dang bear than they do you. Heres another secret; if you deploy bear spray, you better hope the wind is at your back. Side wind, youll probably not score a solid hit on your target, and very likely indirectly gas yourself and the bear, making things much worse. Any head wind, youll miss the bear completely, while drenching yourself. Also much worse. That makes bear spray usable 25% of the time, and Im not taking wind readings with a grizzly bear charging me. My 10mm works the same in every imaginable weather situation.
Ive met 3 people who have been mauled by grizzlies here in Idaho. None of them made the news, because very few actually do. People that dont live, work, and recreate in grizzly country will never tell me how to protect myself against them. Nor will the department of fish and game, or department of wildlife services, since they have way less paperwork to do if I die than if the bear does. Bottom line: bear spray is a joke, and if you want a really good belly laugh, tell me to use it to protect myself and my family.
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - Zeneffect - 08-15-2022
Bear spray is ok... on an otherwise bland burrito
If you are in need of defending yourself from any animal that is 1/2 the weight you are or heavier, whatever "spray" you are carrying had best spray lead at high velocity. I grew up in the suburbs of Northern Virginia, and live near Sacramento currently yet I've had a few bear and mountain lion encounters in my time. You don't need to be in the woods 24/7. I've seen them in back yards, pools, side walks, fairly used running trails etc. People's missing cats and dogs? Those are coyotes getting hungry, don't think for a second d they won't snatch your kid
Disinformation about handgun defensive use against bears - Zeneffect - 08-17-2022
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/fitness/marathon-runner-with-forrest-gump-style-skill-mauled-by-coyote-on-150-mile-race/ar-AA10JMBS?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=47ee3cde012f4221960124c37588725c
TLDR,
Forrest gump got attacked by a yote. "tourists" are to blame for feeding them supposedly, but there its not tourists, its the moron locals... the same ones who relocate feral hogs rather than exterminate.
Moral of story, if you going to be running 150 miles in basically your underwear, carry some high octane, leaded protection.