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+--- Thread: Erik Cortina Tuner (/showthread.php?tid=24558)
Erik Cortina Tuner - JCart - 05-21-2022
Hi Fellas,
Any one try an EC Tuner/Brake for their Grendel? Thought I might try one for fun, mine shoots great with moderate powder charges with various 100 grain boolits. The notion was to try and increase velocity to near max and adjust accuracy with Tuner. And/or see how much better current loads are tuned.
Thoughts? Ive never used a tuner before.
j
Erik Cortina Tuner - Paringa - 05-24-2022
If you are reloading, and it was a real target rifle, and you are looking to improve from 0.3 to 0.2 groups then maybe the tuner only .the tuner-brake will be overkill. Tuners are no substitute for methodical load development ..they are meant to squeeze out the very last 0.1s of accuracy, not turn an MOA+ gun into a one-holer.
Erik Cortina Tuner - Klem - 05-24-2022
JC,
Tuners are not popular around my way, even among the bench resters. Results are inconsistent relative to far more influential variables. It is difficult to isolate shooting variables to see how much, if any, influence a tuner has on the rifle.
If you are shooting an AR or even a standard bolt gun I would save your money. You will be end up in confirmatory bias wondering whether it was the tuner that caused the bullet to go where it did.
Erik Cortina Tuner - Happy2Shoot - 05-24-2022
Tuners are nothing new.
I think Remington even had a rifle with a tuner on it.
Looked something like this.
![[Image: 71L1i2hhxJL._AC_SL1500_.jpg]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71L1i2hhxJL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
Tuners can have a humongous effect.
Shoot 3 rounds, remove your flash-hider, shoot three rounds, add a muzzle brake, shoot three more rounds.
I guarantee your three groups will be in three distinct locations.
When I removed my pepper-pot muzzle brake from a Mauser action 35 Whelen I had a 3 inch vertical shift at 50 yards!
It is the same concept.
All a tuner is doing is shifting a weight at the end of your barrel to change how it vibrates when the cartridge deflagrates.
Erik Cortina Tuner - Klem - 05-24-2022
Happy,
I think we have different definitions of what a tuner is.
I absolutely agree that shooting with or without a suppressor changes the MPI and increases velocity. The added weight on the barrel and influence on the exiting gasses is profound. Same with, and without a muzzle brake and it's influence on how exiting gasses influence the bullet and barrel rise. Big differences to barrel weight and gas direction has a noticeable effect.
But a tuner is different. Plenty of discussion online about whether they work or not for the reading. I saw one F Class shooter with a heavy match rifle over a few months use one and eventually take it off because it made no noticeable improvement in groups.
Erik Cortina Tuner - montana - 05-24-2022
Be careful using any muzzle device... For accuracy, I won't torque any higher than 15 foot pounds. The torque will actually compress the barrel that can be measured with a muzzle erosion gauge..The higher the torque, the higher the compression..This is why barrels that require a high torque setting with a suppressor will have un-even bore wear at the muzzle and will be less accurate over time when the suppressor is removed..
Erik Cortina Tuner - Happy2Shoot - 05-25-2022
Klem Wrote:Happy,
I think we have different definitions of what a tuner is.
I absolutely agree that shooting with or without a suppressor changes the MPI and increases velocity. The added weight on the barrel and influence on the exiting gasses is profound. Same with, and without a muzzle brake and it's influence on how exiting gasses influence the bullet and barrel rise. Big differences to barrel weight and gas direction has a noticeable effect.
But a tuner is different. Plenty of discussion online about whether they work or not for the reading. I saw one F Class shooter with a heavy match rifle over a few months use one and eventually take it off because it made no noticeable improvement in groups.
Of course I will accept actual experience with a tuner.
I suspect the effects of using a barrel tuner are similar to the technique of adjusting seating depth. Sometimes it really does work, and other times you were already at the best you could do and you make it worse.
Erik Cortina Tuner - Happy2Shoot - 05-25-2022
montana Wrote:Be careful using any muzzle device... For accuracy, I won't torque any higher than 15 foot pounds. The torque will actually compress the barrel that can be measured with a muzzle erosion gauge..The higher the torque, the higher the compression..This is why barrels that require a high torque setting with a suppressor will have un-even bore wear at the muzzle and will be less accurate over time when the suppressor is removed..
Montana I am having a difficult time visualizing the force that compresses the muzzle. The threads pull back in the direction the muzzle, but are stopped by the thread-barrel-shoulder with proper undercut. I don't doubt it, especially if it can be measured with with gage pins. Could you explain it?
Erik Cortina Tuner - montana - 05-25-2022
Not much more to explain that what I stated before..Torque on muzzle threads compresses the bore...The more the torque, the more the compression.. Anyone with a muzzle erosion gauge can verify this...Measure the bore before and after torquing any muzzle device...
Erik Cortina Tuner - JCart - 06-08-2022
Hi Fellas,
EC brake/tuner arrived, its a bit larger then I anticipated. Will let you know how it does, just for fun. Interested to see if itll tighten up the .5-.75 5 shot @ 100 m groups. Really pleased with repeatable accuracy of my RAR, never thought Id get this accuracy from a 16 barrel. Such a fun compact rifle to shoot and if the EC tuner improves repeatable accuracy and I can turn up the velocity so much the better. Would love to run suppressed but alas here in Komi Kanada . Gah Ill save the rant for another day.
Cheers
j
Erik Cortina Tuner - Remington Jim - 06-28-2022
This is going to be Interesting
Erik Cortina Tuner - Happy2Shoot - 06-28-2022
@JCart have had a chance to shoot with it yet?
Erik Cortina Tuner - JCart - 06-30-2022
Apologies fellas, too many other projects on the go. Will report back as soon as Ive messed with it though.
Erik Cortina Tuner - Growler - 06-30-2022
Happy2Shoot Wrote:Montana I am having a difficult time visualizing the force that compresses the muzzle. The threads pull back in the direction the muzzle, but are stopped by the thread-barrel-shoulder with proper undercut. I don't doubt it, especially if it can be measured with with gage pins. Could you explain it?
I have nothing to offer on the tuner, but maybe I can help with the visualization of what causes bore compression and the forces involved.
Threaded fasteners bear the majority of the joint stress on the outer 1 1/2 to 2 thread rows. In our case these are the rows closest to the crown. This leads to a bulk tension in the barrels muzzle sectionbetween shoulder and those last thread rows. The muzzle device threads apply an angled force perpendicular to the barrel threads, facing the bore centerline. This is the force that can locally distort the bore as mentioned.
if your font is other than mono-spaced, the following may not look right:
> VV < muzzle device in bulk compression
< WW > barrel threads in tension
- - - - bore CL
Erik Cortina Tuner - grayfox - 07-01-2022
The forces I have experienced came from using a crush washer. Since the washer does not align totally concentric and since it deforms (radial-wise) non-uniformly, it puts a non-concentric force on both the muzzle device and the barrel-tip. For any muzzle device I now use either an accuwasher system or jam nut to keep everything uniform around the bore and barrel.
Erik Cortina Tuner - Remington Jim - 07-01-2022
JCart Wrote:Apologies fellas, too many other projects on the go. Will report back as soon as Ive messed with it though.
Kamloops GUYS ARE always BUSY
:p. Lol RJ
Erik Cortina Tuner - JCart - 07-02-2022
Log cabin summer home installing kitchen cabinets, finish new flooring and finalize log sanding, staining, backer rod instal and chinking. So yaaas busy times, be nice when done a little ways off yet. Heh.
j
Erik Cortina Tuner - TickTock - 09-12-2022
Did you ever get to test the tuner?
Erik Cortina Tuner - JCart - 10-21-2022
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19230[/ATTACH]
Apologies for the tardiness fellas, here is preliminary messin with EC tuner. Appears with my RAR it likes the EC tuner set at 2.0 (for now). Plan is to work up hotter loads and hopefully get it to shoot smaller groups. Previous to EC Tuner, groups spread out when using hotter loads, the notion is to dial in hotter loads with EC tuner. Time will tell.
Existing trial settings you can see how it does tighten up groups, with target 3 being the setting of choice. Last target on right is after some scope adjustment a couple days later, with EC set on 2.0.
O course youll have to zoom in on the image as I slimmed it down to be accepted.
Cheers,
j