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Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Printable Version

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Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Big_John - 03-04-2022

New here to the forum and I have some questions. I want to really reach out to the far limits with this little Howa Plinker that is new to me. I reload and have a good selection of .264 bullets, as I also shoot a 6.5 PRC out to 2k yards.

I just wonder..... for you benchrest shooters, what is the highest ballistic coefficient bullet you are pushing, out this tiny little case?

The Hornady 147gr ELD Match, that I shoot with my PRC is a bullet I would like to try, as it has a BC of .697. I know it will have to be pushed into the case, hence taking up some room for powder. But has anyone tried it?

If I could get 2,200 fps out of it, I should be able to get over 1,000 fps at a mile (1,760) at my elevation of 5,000 feet. It would be super-sonic at 1,400 yards.

Who has load data and experience for long bullets with high BC's with the Grendel?


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Highest BC Bullet... ???? - kmon - 03-04-2022

129gr Nosler Accubond LR and Berger 130gr OTM are as high BC bullets as I have used in the GRR. Get above 130 in this small case you loose more velocity than the heavier bullets added BC are worth IMO. I know people that doo pretty well to 1000 yards with 123gr bullets. I have not taken my Grendel past 600 yards but am comfortable with it to there. I know I could take it further but were I hunt these days 300 yards is as far as I have a shot on anything. Shooting 600 makes those 300 yard shots seem easy.

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Big_John - 03-04-2022

The other reason it is appealing to get to high BC bullets, is this Howa is one of the few guns that came with an OEM barrel with a 1-8" twist, that will stabilize the longer bullets.


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Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Big_John - 03-04-2022

Brown Truck just delivered my 20MOA Rail and 30mm Rings......


[Image: Z4dyvjz.jpg]

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - tdbru - 03-04-2022

BJ,
go to the hornady web site with their ballistic calculator https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/4dof

put in the numbers and see where you SG drops below 1.5. you may be ok. I've not looked into the very heavy 6.5 bullets in this tiny case. since you loose velocity quite a bit with the heavier bullets due to limited powder capacity, you may find that, as kmon mentioned, you might be able to keep a 130 ELDM SS to a further distance than the 147gr. ELDM due to the big difference in velocity.

there use to be a poster, whom I haven't seen post for awhile, that shot the 6.5 Gr out to over a mile at a gong. I think he was using a 28" bbl length on an AR platform. If I recall Mel was his posting name. You might find those threads of some interest.

regards,
-tdbru

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - grayfox - 03-04-2022

I'd agree that 129-130 is probably your limit, but keep in mind in the howa you can also load longer than 2.260, some guys have got out to 2.300+ without single loading, that keeps some otherwise cramped room, available for you.
Don't know if 20" barrel can get out that far however, Mel is one who has shot the farthest that I know of, and he's using typically 26-28" barrels. Maybe other guys whose names I've forgotten...

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Klem - 03-04-2022

John,

According to JBM the bullet goes subsonic at 1,275yds, and transonic at 950yds. The bullet is stable all the way down to 1,000fps with a 147ELD-M using JBM's stability calculator and 1:8 twist. Quickload does give you 2,200fps from a 24" barrel and still within SAAMI pressure safety.

Of course you are not going to be happy with group sizes compared to your 6.5PRC, as the bullet gets blown around on the way to the target because it is slower.

But it is all perfectly doable and will be interesting to hear how you go - especially compared against your PRC

How long is that barrel?

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Big_John - 03-05-2022

Well.... good point at the speed of sound increases with altitude..... 1,500@ at 5k feet.....


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Highest BC Bullet... ???? - StoneHendge - 03-05-2022

You may be able to get a high BC 130 to outrun a 123 gr Lapua Scenar past 1000 yards, but you won't be able to get one to group better than it inside 1k and the Scenar is a heck of a lot flatter most of the way out. I even use them in my PRS gas gun Creedmoor; I'll give up 5% wind drift at 1k for their performance inside that. And the best part is that you can actually find them at relatively reasonable prices when you want them.

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Harpoon1 - 03-05-2022

Big_John Wrote:Well.... good point at the speed of sound increases with altitude..... 1,500@ at 5k feet.....


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Actually, the “Speed of Sound” DECREASES with altitude!

https://www.hill.af.mil/Portals/58/documents/Museum/Standard-altitude-table-for-speed-of-sound.pdf?ver=2016-09-07-155613-653

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - LR1955 - 03-05-2022

Big_John Wrote:Well.... good point at the speed of sound increases with altitude..... 1,500@ at 5k feet.....


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BJ:

Not really sure what you want out of all of this. The longer bullets are more capable of higher BC's because there is enough room on them to streamline their design. Pay back is that they are higher only in a narrow velocity band. BC's change as velocity changes. And the longer bullets suck up powder space which means they are so slow that they will probably never get the BC that is hyped on them at Grendel velocities.

BC doesn't correlate to accuracy either. You are buying good things with them, if you can get them to the speeds they were designed to be most efficient. Faster to the target means you can make more mistakes in wind doping and get away with them. Also, for guys who do PRC on unknown distance ranges where they have to estimate range, faster means flatter trajectory which means more danger space and the shooter can make more mistakes in range estimation and get away with them. Just note that this assumes the load and bullet you are using is capable of holding the target size at those distances. Missing with a high BC bullet doesn't do you any more good than the same with a low BC bullet.

I am sure it gets to a point where you are losing so much powder space in return for bullet length (an maybe higher BC), that a bullet of less BC going a lot faster will also go farther. Not sure where it is with your bullets.

5K feet is an elevation where you sure will see a improvement in effective range and you will need to come down on elevation compared to sea level. The guys here having the best performance at long ranges with the relatively low velocity Grendel are shooting at 5K and over.

I think what we are all getting at is that finding a bullet that does what you want is more important than shooting a bullet with a higher BC.

LR-55

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Big_John - 03-06-2022

LR1955 Wrote:BJ:

Not really sure what you want out of all of this.

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LR-55

Here's what I want......

When I go to the range it is for 4-5 hours. I shoot a lot and it is nice to have a couple of long range guns with little recoil, to give me some relief from the "Big Sticks". I can't sit there and shoot 200 rounds out of my 7mm Mag all day. It's too punishing. So I have a .223 and now a Grendel to rotate and shoot with little recoil. I live by the moto... "Practice, practice.... practice"

So I am sitting on the "ELR Steel Range", on a cement bench that is 1000-2000 yards and I am not changing ranges and benches once I get set up with Chrono and Spotting Scope and ammo and guns and cases... etc.....

So I need the Grendel to perform on the ELR and would like to try and hit some steels with it at 1 mile and maybe 2000 yards. When you run the Hornady calculator for the Grendel, it is very, very appealing with a 147g that has a BC of .697. out in the 1k-2k range. 147 is far better than the 123.

Also, I usually "hand, single-feed".... Don't care if they fit in the mag.

At the end of the day, I have the 147g pills and I will reload them and give them a go and report back here what I learn. I just wondered if anyone had any data to share.


Buy the way, this is my .223 and with my 67gr hand-loads, it easily plays out to 1,400 yards. Savage Model 12, Heavy, Stainless 26" Barrel, 6-24x Optics.

[Image: l0o7cIT.jpg]

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - grayfox - 03-06-2022

Not to put down any of your current toys... but you should look into/think about the 6mm ARC, bolt action 22" or +, and talk to Mel or Dino. They are shooting that distance and the BC/light recoil etc from the 108-110 gr 6mm bullets, gets the job done.
Just another $0.02 for ya.

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - LRRPF52 - 03-06-2022

Even with the fast 6mms like the Dasher, 6x47, and 6 CM, it’s hard to hear them impact on steel even at 700yds. When I’ve RO’d at matches, we’ve always had that problem of registering the hits.

In no-wind conditions, no problem. I can hear .223 68gr and up impact without much issue, as long as there isn’t wind, even out to 1000yds. But I can recall 2 days over the last 13 years here in Utah where we had those conditions, and one was actually at night when the wind had totally died, guy was confirming zero on 600yd range, impacts were very audible.

I was going to mention single-loading in the bolt gun and loading the 130gr or longer class out long to optimize the projectile relative to the shoulder neck junction.

What I found in gas guns using the same barrel length between my .260 Rem and 6.5 Grendels, I was hitting the Grendel mv from the .260 Rem at around 200yds, with the exact same bullets, magazine-fed. .260 Rem is easily supersonic to 1400yds+ in my elevations, which are similar to yours (4400-6600 at the ranges I go to, then 9000+ for elk season up in the Uintahs).

Here are some dummy cartridges I made with cutaway to show where some of the 140gr are relative to the powder column:

140gr Berger, 140gr A-MAX, 131gr .257 Ace, 6mm AR, 123gr SST standard Grendel cartridge
[Image: 20190101_154305_zpsml8q8sya.jpg?width=19...fit=bounds]

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Big_John - 03-06-2022

That is a fantastic pic.... Thanks a ton!

140 Berger looks darn good.

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Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Big_John - 03-06-2022

grayfox Wrote:Not to put down any of your current toys... but you should look into/think about the 6mm ARC, bolt action 22" or +, and talk to Mel or Dino. They are shooting that distance and the BC/light recoil etc from the 108-110 gr 6mm bullets, gets the job done.
Just another $0.02 for ya.


Looked hard at the 6mm ARC (wanted to love it), but when I ran the ballistics........ meh.

The 6.5 Grendel has more case capacity and a .264 bullet has more capability (especially with cross wind) than a .243 in ELR considerations.


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Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Big_John - 03-06-2022

Typically, I partially seat a bullet in a blank brass.... run it into the chamber and close the bolt. That tells me exactly how much I need to back it out for that specific gun and where I need to set the seating moving forward. With the bullet of choice, it will either fit in the mag or I will single feed.

Pretty simple.....


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Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Feral - 03-06-2022

From this thread:
https://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?17400-65G-on-Ram-Silhouettes
Post #30
ramslamer
Loading heavy for rams. I am running the 147 eld-m in a howa mini. The barrel is 26 long , but slow. Group testing at 200 yd is what I have at home. Covid ruined all matches this year. I tried alot of powders cfe gave me 2475 fps but groups were not for me. I am also not a big fan of ball powder. I chose h4895 with 27 gr I’m getting 2420 fps with a ragged hole. I feel it will be good . Theirs people not getting that in a tcu. This is rifle , so it is 500 meters. Being a AAA hunter class shooter I realy cant loose a ram. I feel the 147 is a great ram bullet , seems less pressure and more smack than any other I’ve tried.

Video with Barnes 140gr. Match HP
https://youtu.be/JZ7XmGtnO_8

Highest BC Bullet... ???? - Big_John - 03-07-2022

Fantastic video... You happen to play with loads exactly how I do. But I normally, increase a 0.5g per three rounds at a time, for a 3 round chrono average, looking hard for pressure signs and which is giving me my best accuracy. And I am so anal-compulsive... I hand weigh each load, plucking powder grains with tweezers to get it perfect.

If you got 2,430 with the 140gr... I would think I could get 2,350 with the 147gr, without a lot of indigestion.

If I plug 2,350fps into the calculator, with the 147gr.....and my 22" barrel (at my altitude and humidity), .....

this is friggin nuts, but ..... 1,009 fps at 2,000 yards.

At 600 yards, I am getting 1,800 fps and 1,050 fpe. That will kill a deer.

Amazing this piss-ant little round can produce like this.

I am going to have a very, very, very hard time keeping my wife from taking this gun for her's.



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Highest BC Bullet... ???? - kmon - 03-08-2022

Big_John Wrote:I am going to have a very, very, very hard time keeping my wife from taking this gun for her's.



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Grendels have a way of multiplying, once you have one and shoot it some somehow another 1 or 3 appear