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+--- Thread: annealing (/showthread.php?tid=24168)
annealing - northdude - 01-18-2022
How often do you guys anneal your brass?
annealing - Oso Polaris - 01-18-2022
There are a bunch of threads here and over on Accurate Shooters forum worth reading.
Views on this have changed over time. The current view is either don't anneal or anneal after each shot. The benefit of annealing is it provides a more uniform neck tension and it may also improve case life.
As far as the case life there is a argument that the majority of annealers in the market do not properly heat the case to sufficient temperature to re-aligning the molecular structure of the brass. If you were to achieve this temp with these units then you would also ruin the entire case because the time/amount of heat applied would be annealing/softeneing the entire case and not just simply the case neck. The only type of annealer that can quickly achieve these temps while keeping the heated area isolated is an induction coil annealer. There is one unit on the market that has extensive testing to prove its claim, the AMP ($1500).
annealing - LR1955 - 01-18-2022
ND:
Yes, run a search or just look at the topic listing in this forum. About five very good threads on annealing but OP summed them up perfectly in my opinion. He stated the annealer that actually works, its cost, and benefits. You won't go from a two minute blaster to one minute because you annealed the brass. In fact, you probably won't notice anything down range. If you use a good annealing machine, you will probably get longer brass life but remember that with the Grendel the primer pockets loosen up too.
Interesting topic. Lapua brass is around a dollar a piece so if you bought 1500 pieces of Lapua brass, that would equal the cost of the annealer. If you keep your loads within published data, you ought to get twenty shots per piece of brass. 1500 X 20 = 30,000 rounds fired. If you use a decent bushing sizing die and decent lube, you will not overwork the brass by sizing it but at twenty shots per piece you will start losing some due to cracked necks anyway. Anneal and you probably won't crack necks but the primer pockets will go too and twenty firings per piece means some will be losing the primer pockets and you will have to ditch them anyway.
I am not sure it is worth the money but some guys here swear by it so do look at some of the threads.
LR-55
annealing - jasper2408 - 01-18-2022
In the Erik Cortina Utube interview with the 2 inventors of the AMP annealer they stated that it was possible to anneal correctly with flame based annealers. He did not give the method he used to correctly anneal brass with a flame based system but did say it was very possible to do just as good a job as the AMP annealer provided and it sounded like they had done some testing on it.
I anneal after each firing.
annealing - StoneHendge - 01-18-2022
Never.
annealing - SCJim - 01-18-2022
My standard reply when I see this topic
My take on annealing is either do it every time or never do it. Either method works for me. What will get you into trouble with precision shooting is when you shoot with cases that have various numbers of reloads on them. On a precision bolt rifle at least. I shoot mostly F class mid and long range and did a few experiments a couple of years back and found that annealing always or never worked as far as flyers went. When we moved my cases got mixed up some with 5 reloads some with 10 plus when the reloading room was packed up. For about a year before the relocation I had stopped annealing and had noticed no problems. Then suddenly I began getting odd flyers vertically. I practice with 10 round groups at 300 + yards and would have a .5 MOA group get a flyer out in the 8 ring. I tried a couple of different experiments and found annealing stopped me getting flyers. Annealing works for me at least
On the science -
Quote:https://sites.google.com/site/lagadoacademy/machining---lathes-mills-etc/brass---stress-relieving
Temperature Effect
Quote from How to make it in Brass - Copper Development Association
250-300°C
482-572°F
stress relief
When cold worked brass is progressively heated, the first effect, at about 250°C, is for the internal stresses to be relieved. This prevents stress corrosion cracking subsequently occurring and also minimises the amount of distortion which may occur during machining. This low temperature heat treatment, which should be applied for 1?2 to 1 hour, is known as stress-relief annealing and has little, if any, measurable effect on the mechanical properties of the material. The improved strength due to the cold working is therefore retained.
In order to relieve internal stresses without loss of properties a low-temperature anneal such as 1?2 to 1 hour at 250-300°C should be used, dependent on section size.
400°C
752°F annealing, softening
As the temperature is increased further, a rather more fundamental change occurs at about 400°C and above and the material starts to anneal or soften with time at temperature. The strengthening effect of the cold working is progressively lost, until at about 500°C the alloy is in the fully annealed condition. Restoration of the cold worked properties can then only be achieved by further cold work.
500-550°C
932-1022°F full annealing
In order to fully soften most brasses, heat to 500-550°C for 1?2 to 1 hour at temperature, then either air cool or, especially for alpha alloys, ensure that excessive grain growth is prevented by a quench or rapid furnace cool.
>550°C
>1022°F flash annealing
Flash annealing can be carried out at higher temperatures for considerably shorter times, but care is
needed to avoid excessive grain growth.
900-940 °C
1652-1724 °F melting point of brass
source: Wikipedia
as you can see annealing involves both time and temperature. Using flame the best you can hope for is stress relief and a bit of softening. That is not a bad thing, I used flame annealing for many years and have some lapua .308 Palma brass going on 30 reloads now that were loaded with some darn hot loads. I still have over 90 cases from the original 100. For 5+ years I used the old plumbers torch, cordless drill and socket method in a dark room method. That brass will still give me less than 1 MOA 20 round groups at 800 yards plus. Then I switched to a Annealeeze. That worked fine except on short cases such as the 6BR and Grendel family you have to be careful abot melting the wheels. I recently switched to an AMP but other than convenience and speed I have noticed little or no differences in my groups or number of flyers.
Anyway that is just my 2 cents worth and as always YMMV
annealing - ricsmall - 01-21-2022
Im in agreement with SCJIM. Im using the Annealeez and find a noticeable difference in sizing effort, and much more consistent neck tension. What prompted me to start annealing was inconsistent neck tension with 280AI and 28 nosler using nosler brass. I experimented on grendel brass and was pleased with the results, then did my 260 AI brass and improved neck tension consistency.