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12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - Printable Version

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12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - Lawless - 01-15-2022

I have looked around quite a bit, so if this is already discussed please add the links so I can check them out

I'll start by saying I have a Faxon 12" and from all the information I have gathered is that more often than not, Grendels prefer hand loads

My specific question is, has anyone experimented with different muzzle devices and achieved better results from this 12"?

So far I have only shot mine with an A2 cage and just recently decided to try a Strike Industries JComp V2. I like this JComp on a .308 I have because it makes it shoot pretty soft for a .30 and I figured I would see what the results are on this shorty.

Knowing how harmonics play a large part in accuracy, I think the additional weight and length may potentially play a part in making it group better or worse

So hopefully others may have traveled down this path before me and have some helpful insight to share

Thank You!!!

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - peak98 - 01-15-2022

Welcome to the Horde, with a handle like “lawless”, you’re gonna fit right on in here! ?? Lawless is of my favorite movies too.

On my 12” barrel, I have an standard a2, and as soon as our deer season ends, I’m swapping it out to a Kaw Valley Precision linear comp. I’ve got one on my 20” barrel, it works great. I also like/use the Gamma VG 6 break(s) but they get obnoxious on the little 12” barrels and aren’t really needed imho. Only way to see if your barrel prefers one style/manufacturer over another is to try a couple and see, I’d start with proper assembly techniques, quality components if you’re wanting a good shooter. Again, welcome to the Horde from just down da bayou, tell us more about your build & goals you want to hit with it.
peak98

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - LRRPF52 - 01-18-2022

Welcome. Thinking over all the ammunition I have fired through various 6.5 Grendels since 2009, to include a large volume of both hand loads and factory loads, I have never been able to match the accuracy of some of the higher-end production ammunition, particularly the Precision Firearms 123gr SMK and 123gr Scenar loads. I have been able to match and exceed the accuracy of the Hornady ammo.

Interestingly, the PPU 120gr MPT load has also been accurate when I have shot it, even though it was the lowest cost brass case option on the market at the time.

Through the 12” Grendels I built, this is what 123gr ELD-M factory does:

[Image: 20190301_170115_zpsmgluejeu.jpg?width=19...fit=bounds]

90gr TNT factory, 12” original group buy Faxon barrel:

[Image: 20180727_170156_zpsurtmn8ob.jpg?width=19...fit=bounds]

[Image: 20180727_113305_zpsyjkthkn0.jpg?width=19...fit=bounds]

Here are 2 10-shot groups from one of the 12” Grendels pushing 107gr SMK hand loads over 8208XBR:

100yds
[Image: Resized_20200222_125838_zpsmcgullge.jpeg...fit=bounds]


I have data on 2x 12” Grendels I built with 2 different shooters, several different loads. I haven’t shot any hand-loads through my 12” yet, and have been shooting 123gr ELD-M factory lately.

It’s a fun little set-up to shoot, carry, pack, and easily fits in vehicles for carriage.

My buddy and I have both seen consistent MOA or better performance from them. The only load that shot outside of MOA for me so far has been the 120gr Federal OTM.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - LRRPF52 - 01-18-2022

[Image: 20190301_161744_zps9ge7vm8n.jpg?width=19...fit=bounds]

[Image: 20190301_184113_zpsfgcbtjq1.jpg?width=19...fit=bounds]

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - Bully - 01-24-2022

LRRPF52 Wrote:Welcome. Thinking over all the ammunition I have fired through various 6.5 Grendels since 2009, to include a large volume of both hand loads and factory loads, I have never been able to match the accuracy of some of the higher-end production ammunition, particularly the Precision Firearms 123gr SMK and 123gr Scenar loads. I have been able to match and exceed the accuracy of the Hornady ammo.

Interestingly, the PPU 120gr MPT load has also been accurate when I have shot it, even though it was the lowest cost brass case option on the market at the time.

My 95gr Lehigh Controlled Chaos loads showed a lot of promise at 200yds.

Through the 12” Grendels I built, this is what 123gr ELD-M factory does:

[Image: 20190301_170115_zpsmgluejeu.jpg?width=19...fit=bounds]

90gr TNT factory, 12” original group buy Faxon barrel:

[Image: 20180727_170156_zpsurtmn8ob.jpg?width=19...fit=bounds]

[Image: 20180727_113305_zpsyjkthkn0.jpg?width=19...fit=bounds]

Here are 2 10-shot groups from one of the 12” Grendels pushing 107gr SMK hand loads over 8208XBR:

[Image: Resized_20200222_125838_zpsmcgullge.jpeg...fit=bounds]


I have data on 2x 12” Grendels I built with 2 different shooters, several different loads. I haven’t shot any hand-loads through my 12” yet, and have been shooting 123gr ELD-M factory lately.

It’s a fun little set-up to shoot, carry, pack, and easily fits in vehicles for carriage.

My buddy and I have both seen consistent MOA or better performance from them. The only load that shot outside of MOA for me so far has been the 120gr Federal OTM.

I'm glad you're on here. You're the reason I'm building a shorty.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - LRRPF52 - 01-24-2022

When I reach for one of my Grendels, I’m usually leaning towards the 12”, but I like the 16”, and 18” Grendels too.

12” Suppressed is my do-all.

[Image: 20180717_171341_zpskpjrveit.jpg?width=19...fit=bounds]

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - myrifle - 01-25-2022

Agreed. The 16 and 18 inchers are nice but a 12 or 12.5 inch is where it's at. I so regret letting go of my 12.5 inch barrels. Going to fix that issue very soon.

Miss my lil grendels.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - fortsbest - 01-25-2022

myrifle Wrote:Agreed. The 16 and 18 inchers are nice but a 12 or 12.5 inch is where it's at. I so regret letting go of my 12.5 inch barrels. Going to fix that issue very soon.

Miss my lil grendels.

I've got a 12.5 inch built on a Satern/Liberty barrel, an 18 and 20 inch both on Wilson Combat barrels. After a custom bolt gun build in the next few months I want to try T-Box barrel. I'm going to start testing rounds for the shorty this week weather permitting.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - myrifle - 01-26-2022

fortsbest Wrote:I've got a 12.5 inch built on a Satern/Liberty barrel, an 18 and 20 inch both on Wilson Combat barrels. After a custom bolt gun build in the next few months I want to try T-Box barrel. I'm going to start testing rounds for the shorty this week weather permitting.

I have 2 16 inch grendels, a cz 527 bolt grendel at the moment.

When I get ready to build up another shorty, my money will once again go to Mark at PF unless sixfivearms has a short barrel instock by that time.

I'm perrty snobbish on my barrels, one of the best lessons I learned on this site, only rich people can afford cheap barrels.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - peak98 - 01-26-2022

myrifle Wrote:only rich people can afford cheap barrels.

Quote of the year right here!
peak98

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - HoustonHipster6.5 - 02-11-2022

Are all these targets at 200 yards? I'm trying to determine the max humane/lethal distance with my 12" AR. Thanks.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - LRRPF52 - 02-11-2022

HoustonHipster6.5 Wrote:Are all these targets at 200 yards? I'm trying to determine the max humane/lethal distance with my 12" AR. Thanks.

None of those are 200yd groups that I posted.

I mentioned that I had promising group results with 95gr Controlled Chaos but that was through my 17.6” Grendel, so I removed that comment to avoid any confusion.

If you pin ethical hunting distance on expansion threshold, it will depend on the bullet you are using.

There aren’t many hunting bullets that won’t give you expansion within 250 yards from a 12”, as long as they’re doing 2200fps or faster assuming an 1800fps expansion floor.

The ones you want to stay away from are the heavier/longer bullets with higher expansion threshold meant for magnums.

129gr ABLR has 1300fps expansion threshold.

The Maker TREX bullets really peel open like a blender blade.

123gr SSTs work just fine in 12”. If you look in the Hunting Sub Forum, you’ll find a lot of results with 12” Grendels including recent ones.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - NDSwede - 02-12-2022

My specific question is, has anyone experimented with different muzzle devices and achieved better results from this 12"?

Lawless, are you familiar with the EC Tuner from Eric Cortina? It’s a barrel tuner he makes. You can watch some videos on YouTube. It might be in line with what your looking for.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - myrifle - 02-12-2022

NDSwede Wrote:My specific question is, has anyone experimented with different muzzle devices and achieved better results from this 12"?

Lawless, are you familiar with the EC Tuner from Eric Cortina? It’s a barrel tuner he makes. You can watch some videos on YouTube. It might be in line with what your looking for.

Why put lipstick on a pig? Be better to fix the issue.

I have used several muzzle devices on my short guns and have settled on a liner compensator for my needs.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - LRRPF52 - 02-12-2022

NDSwede Wrote:My specific question is, has anyone experimented with different muzzle devices and achieved better results from this 12"?

Lawless, are you familiar with the EC Tuner from Eric Cortina? It’s a barrel tuner he makes. You can watch some videos on YouTube. It might be in line with what your looking for.

I would strongly advise against putting a muzzle brake on anything with a short barrel.

If you ever shoot one, you will immediately know why.

For 12”, I would only do a flash hider, linear comp, or suppressor.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - Klem - 02-12-2022

Agree with 52, for short barrels it's a flash suppressor, linear, or suppressor. No concussive sideways brake.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - NDSwede - 02-14-2022

Didn’t think about the concussive effect of a brake on a twelve incher.
I think they make an EC Tuner that isn’t a brake. Just a tuner.

12" bbls and muzzle device hamonics - Klem - 02-14-2022

NDSwede Wrote:Didn’t think about the concussive effect of a brake on a twelve incher.
I think they make an EC Tuner that isn’t a brake. Just a tuner.

Swede,

You will see no difference in group size using a tuner. It's influence may be there, but you will never see it on the target in a AR SBR. If you are using it for extra weight then the $150+ would be better spent getting a heaver barrel, or putting more weight up front hanging off the handguard. And if you decide to get a new barrel because of precision then you may as well pony up for a quality barrel and not worry about the tuner.

I haven't used a tuner, but saw one in F-Class long range competition. After months of fiddling with it the owner got rid of it, and that was on a 30" thick heavy supported barrel, and where all other factors contributing to precision are better managed. We saw no change to his group sizes. I have heard similar stories from other shooters. I don't want to get into an argument over whether tuners work so let's just say it may work. But if you don't see precision improvements in an 8kg bench rest gun then you sure as hell won't see it in a light-weight, short-barreled AR.