+- 6.5 Grendel Forum (https://65grendel.com)
+-- Forum: 6.5 GRENDEL DISCUSSION FORUMS (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: 6.5 Grendel Build-It-Yourself & Custom Builds (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Howa Mini re-barrel or caliber switch? (/showthread.php?tid=23652)
Howa Mini re-barrel or caliber switch? - Ruwhitsum - 08-22-2021
Dear Horde,
Long time reader, first time poster. I've had the distinct pleasure of absorbing a massive amount of knowledge from this forum. Now I humbly come to the table with a fork in my personal 6.5 journey. Please allow me to summarize the circumstance.
I've been using this cartridge the past 4 years to build my knowledge and skill as a shooter, reloader, and garage tinker. And I'm hooked. I've got a 20" Odin build and a 12.5" XCaliber build. Load development is in a good place (123SST shooting sub 3/4" consistently) on the 20". Rang steel last weekend out to 900 yards. 800 yards was easy with 123SST, 107SMK, and 130TMK handloads. 123BTHP / 123ELDM / 90TNT's are still being experimented with, but I feel like my hunting and target practice is covered in the gas gun platform. Although I will continue to tinker, of course.
Most recently, I assembled and have begun working with a Howa mini-action... MDT Brownell's chassis, 20" heavy barrel. However, at this point I've paused to contemplate. I'm not not seeing much difference compared to the 20" gas gun in terms of velocity. I know that the platform should allow me eek out more precision and that's what I am in pursuit of ultimately. However, more velocity along with it would be ideal. Slightly hotter loads may also be toyed with, but I'm not trying to blow off my face or wreck gear. I think I'm working my way towards an entry into competition, although that has not been my ambition through this highly enjoyable process and hobby.
***So my question***
Do I re-barrel the mini-action with a 24" custom barrel or just move on to a different caliber like 6.5 Creedmoor?
I like the idea of furthering my Grendel arsenal and utilizing much of the same equipment, supplies and ammunition (handloads are obviously specialized to each weapon). I'm just not sure how much more speed and distance the longer barrel would offer before going into trans-sonic / sub-sonic range. I want to stick with the Howa mini-action rather than go full custom / wildcat. My funds and time are not infinite, so I just try to rationalize my decisions. The Shilen factory is less than 2 hours from home and there are several small custom shops in my area (DFW). Would partnering with a good local shop on a barrel switch be a worthy endeavor? Or do I just start from scratch in the bolt gun department? Howa 1500 in 6.5 Creedmoor keeps coming up into my thoughts. But I'm trying to fight that urge.
For those who tolerated this LONG post, any comments / suggestions / dialogue would be gratefully welcomed with open ears.
Respectfully, Ruwhitsum.
Howa Mini re-barrel or caliber switch? - m796rider - 08-22-2021
Have you tried single loading rounds that are longer than mag length?
Howa Mini re-barrel or caliber switch? - VASCAR2 - 08-23-2021
The 6.5 Creedmoor will use more powder and usually use the heavier 6.5/.264 bullets. Your going to a heavier rifle but are getting a significant step up in velocity/range. If I was going to rebarrel the Howa I would look seriously at the 6 ARC. Going to a 24 6.5 Grendel barrel will only give you 75-100 more FPS than a 20. At least with the 6 ARC your staying with same size rifle and chassis, same amount of powder per cartridge and same basic case as the 6.5 Grendel.
Howa has plans to introduce the 6 ARC but with the current supply interruptions it might be next year before rifles hit the market. Unless you really intend on shooting further than 800-900 yards regularly your 6.5 Grendel is doing pretty good. For competition there are better cartridges with higher velocity and less wind drift than the 6.5 Grendel.
If you go with the 6.5 Creedmoor and dont like it you can always sell it. I have a 24 Cz American 6.5 Grendel and the 24 barrel wouldnt be first choice in a precision rifle course where your moving from one position to the next under the clock.
Howa Mini re-barrel or caliber switch? - tdbru - 08-23-2021
Ruwhitsum,
going to a custom 24" tube, you likely pick up, at most about 50-100 fps more, but that will vary with barrel. you should improve accuracy as a good custom barrel allows one to get much better accuracy. If you want a lot more velocity, you'll need to look at the 6.5 Creedmoor, or the 260 Rem, or the 6.5 PRC. Sit down with pen and notepad and put a couple of goals down for a new build. accuracy? velocity? barrel life? purpose of build (varmint?, light big game?, pest control? strictly targets? mix of all? cost per round? etc.) If you stick with the 6.5mm bore size, as you go up in ctg. size (and pressure) your barrel life goes down. the 6.5 Grendel at 50K psi is much easier on barrels, and hence longer barrel life, than the bigger 6.5s that run at higher pressure and burn more powder per shot. once you have your goals in mind, the rest of the decisions will flow out from the goals. Cost per round is driven mostly by the bullet/case. the difference in powder consumption between the Grendel and the PRC in terms of cost is not much, though more now than ever before due to the cost of components. Maybe another way to look at the goals is # of reloads per pound of powder? Since components are not easy to come by right now, do you need to use a Grendel to maximize # rounds per pound or do you need to run long 6.5 bullets really fast as a priority and let the rest of the tradeoffs fall where they may? You have 6.5 Grendel brass right now. Try to find some 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 PRC brass. And you have small rifle primers. try to find some large rifle primers. you, of course, will need to make the decision yourself, but there are many other, probably minor, things to consider on the list of attributes to help your decision making process. another one that comes to mind is rifle weight. is this going to be a bench rest gun where weight is an advantage, like a sumo wrestler? or are you wanting to build a light weight walk about rig that is not so hard on the body if you have to hike up and down the mountains with it?
good luck and have fun
-tdbru
Howa Mini re-barrel or caliber switch? - Ruwhitsum - 08-24-2021
m796rider Wrote:Have you tried single loading rounds that are longer than mag length?
I havent gone off the reservation yet with my reloading prowess. But I do have the gauge to measure COAL to the lans.
Howa Mini re-barrel or caliber switch? - Ruwhitsum - 08-24-2021
VASCAR2 Wrote:The 6.5 Creedmoor will use more powder and usually use the heavier 6.5/.264 bullets. Your going to a heavier rifle but are getting a significant step up in velocity/range. If I was going to rebarrel the Howa I would look seriously at the 6 ARC. Going to a 24 6.5 Grendel barrel will only give you 75-100 more FPS than a 20. At least with the 6 ARC your staying with same size rifle and chassis, same amount of powder per cartridge and same basic case as the 6.5 Grendel.
Howa has plans to introduce the 6 ARC but with the current supply interruptions it might be next year before rifles hit the market. Unless you really intend on shooting further than 800-900 yards regularly your 6.5 Grendel is doing pretty good. For competition there are better cartridges with higher velocity and less wind drift than the 6.5 Grendel.
If you go with the 6.5 Creedmoor and dont like it you can always sell it. I have a 24 Cz American 6.5 Grendel and the 24 barrel wouldnt be first choice in a precision rifle course where your moving from one position to the next under the clock.
I guess the crux of the matter is I hold this cartridge in such esteem that Id like to maximum effort the hell out of it just to say thats whats possible for it. My budget and skills being the limiting factors, obviously.
Howa Mini re-barrel or caliber switch? - Ruwhitsum - 08-24-2021
tdbru Wrote:Ruwhitsum,
going to a custom 24" tube, you likely pick up, at most about 50-100 fps more, but that will vary with barrel. you should improve accuracy as a good custom barrel allows one to get much better accuracy. If you want a lot more velocity, you'll need to look at the 6.5 Creedmoor, or the 260 Rem, or the 6.5 PRC. Sit down with pen and notepad and put a couple of goals down for a new build. accuracy? velocity? barrel life? purpose of build (varmint?, light big game?, pest control? strictly targets? mix of all? cost per round? etc.) If you stick with the 6.5mm bore size, as you go up in ctg. size (and pressure) your barrel life goes down. the 6.5 Grendel at 50K psi is much easier on barrels, and hence longer barrel life, than the bigger 6.5s that run at higher pressure and burn more powder per shot. once you have your goals in mind, the rest of the decisions will flow out from the goals. Cost per round is driven mostly by the bullet/case. the difference in powder consumption between the Grendel and the PRC in terms of cost is not much, though more now than ever before due to the cost of components. Maybe another way to look at the goals is # of reloads per pound of powder? Since components are not easy to come by right now, do you need to use a Grendel to maximize # rounds per pound or do you need to run long 6.5 bullets really fast as a priority and let the rest of the tradeoffs fall where they may? You have 6.5 Grendel brass right now. Try to find some 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 PRC brass. And you have small rifle primers. try to find some large rifle primers. you, of course, will need to make the decision yourself, but there are many other, probably minor, things to consider on the list of attributes to help your decision making process. another one that comes to mind is rifle weight. is this going to be a bench rest gun where weight is an advantage, like a sumo wrestler? or are you wanting to build a light weight walk about rig that is not so hard on the body if you have to hike up and down the mountains with it?
good luck and have fun
-tdbru
Definitely a bunch of considerations. If budget was set aside and supplies were plentiful, Id be all over a complete overhaul. But yes, if I stick with the Grendel Im much further ahead supplies wise. That is absolutely weighing heavily in my thought process. Bench / prone would be the way it mainly will be deployed. Weight is not of great concern although I wonder what contour would be best without putting too much stress on the action and associated screws.
There are other guns in my modest collection which can handle tactical and tag needs. So the concept that seems to be stuck in my head is just give the Grendel its due and see all it can do.