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Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - lazyengineer - 07-28-2021
I've been watching this company for a year or so; and the Thermal topic for close to 5 years now. Like most inexperienced people on the topic, here is where I was with Thermal:
Option 1:ATN - lowest price option. Terrible general reputation on both quality, and on customer service. My intro to the topic was IR ATN, and like everyone else, it was unreliable and a disappointing experience. When Thermal came on the table, I'm not doing ATN again. Let's just say, I've since learned more about ATN and am more confident in that decision than ever.
Option 2: Pulsar - this outfit has the reputation of a SOLID thermal optic, with one of the better "Bang for your buck" ratio's of a reliable piece of kit. I know three people who hunt with Pulsar's, all of them report solid reliable and effective experiences. Problem with Pulsar are they are considerably more expensive than the ATN, and more importantly, push far enough pass then $2K threashold, into the $5k range real quick, if not careful. They also are HEAVY. And use proprietary battery systems. A solid choice, but heavy and expensive.
Option 3: other. The more serious brands start here, and considerably more serious pricing. $6k+ real fast. No doubt worth it, but that's a hard bite to take for someone who isn't a professional level hunter.
But more research and you get:
Option 2A - Pulsar CORE. This got interesting, as these units are about $2k. "technically" can be had for less, but that's disingenuous since you have to buy the mount separately, and mounts are apparently really expensive to make in Balarus; which is where Pulsar's are made. Investigating these pretty hard and was about to get one when I ran across this. This is a big deal, I have some guns that cost $2k. I don't have any guns that cost $5K!!
Option 4: Bering Optics Hogster The 25mm versions are same price-level as the CORE, at about $2300 (so a touch more). But these units have a way better reputation of image quality, humidity management, distance, and more importantly, are lighter. I like that. I start looking hard at option 4, research everything I can, and notice; there's kind of not much on it. Almost no advertising. Finally, I decide maybe I'm going to go this way - get serious about buying a unit, when I notice something very interesting. Their corporate address, is right next to me. I look them up, and they are literally 1 mile away from me. This can't be real. So... well... I call them up - maybe they have refurbs or something. No, the sure don't, but ... well, if you're just a mile away, why don't you make an appointment with the president of the company. Uh... sssuuure! I'll see you tomorrow!
So I swing by, and meet with the guy. Who's completely cool. Real quick, I learn that all these dudes are Russian. Not just his company, I mean basically everyone in thermal, apparently is Russian. I guess that's because they all rely on gallium, and 70% of the worlds gallium comes from... Russia. He spends over an hour with me, talking about the products, talking about the designs, talking about supply chain. I asked him why they are lightly represented, and he mentioned their advertising budget is $0. They rely solely on reputation. Interesting - in fairness, their reputation is good; which is why I was there. And when I mention the other brands I'm familiar with, he talks some about those too and addresses the issues I have with them. All these guys know each other. I learned a lot about the various markets the different brands target. For example, the main components of a Pulsar is made in Balarus (and Latvia) for the European market. I also learned a whole lot about the ATN line, and also found out just why my own ATN had some very specific failures. It was a fascinating insight conversation, to say the least. He pulls out all of his units, and we walk outside into the industrial park, and just start glassing stuff. He shows me his 12 um 2.9X Super Hogster, and his basic intro 17um 1.4x Hogster. And explains why these units are design for the AR15 platform, with that type of recoil, and that type of usage. It was interesting as Hell. The units were WAY lighter than the Pulsars I've handled; easily half the weight. Yet the optical clarity quality was quite good. To be honest, easily as good as the Pulsars Trails I've run. Right now he doesn't run full 640x480 sensors, but the image processing software and hardware are both quite good, resulting in very crisp image that pretty much looks like it's coming from a 640x480 sensor.
In the end, I think the 12 um 2.9x SuperHogster at $3100(ish), is the better unit, but the field of view was too tight for me. In my hog hunting usage, we line up 3 riflemen abreast, and approach the hogs within 100 yards, and then group fire on a count-down. With that, there is a scatter, and additional follow-up shots are part of the usage. In that case, a wide field of view is vital. To me, at 3X, at 50 yards or so, a hog will just run out of my field of view too quick, when I was looking at it in the parking lot and running the scenario in my head at least. I'm also not a very good hunter, others may do better. So I opted for the cheaper 1.4X version, which is a touch lighter (not much), doesn't record video (oh well - I never used that anyway), but had almost double the field of view. If a group of hogs scatter, I just felt like I could track better with that lower power. Also, the price point is low enough, that if I do this once a year, then there we go. If I get bit by the Hog bug and start to do this 5+ times a year, then I can upgrade if I want to. While this one was cheap enough I can keep as a backup, or run it as a hand-held spotter, which it's light enough for and designed to also be, if you want. Or just sell it I guess, they hold value. So, I pulled out my credit card and bought one. (they don't normally direct-sell; but can).
What I haven't done, is actually shoot it! So I could follow-up and say this is the worst decision ever, but I'm not really expecting that. I won't be able to fire it for at least 2 weeks - life. But can't wait.
For usage, I intend to pair it with my skinny 14.5" pin and weld (for 16" legal) 6.5 Grendel upper I run on a Magnesum lower, for a minimalist light weight gun. The Thermal has a QD mount which they claim (claim) holds zero. I'll test that, because I'm not 100% convinced of that. But if so, that would be pretty neat, to be able to pop it on and off. We'll see, I have friends with Pulsar QD's frustrated that do NOT hold zero, and have all switched back to torqued mounts. But then, a pulsar is over twice the weight, which is asking a lot more of the QD mount to secure as reliably. We'll see, I'll test that.
That's where I'm at least, on this quest. I've been investigating this topic for close to 5 years. This is the one I pulled the trigger on. To be honest, having the company with what my choice already, within a mile of me, did kind of help make the decision! (what are the odds of that??)
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - Klem - 07-28-2021
Lazy,
This is interesting and thanks for the run-down so far.
I thought where thermals are made has also to do with Government import/export restrictions. Doesn't Pulsar make a line in the US for US shooters and the same in eastern Europe for the rest of the world (including Australia and NZ)?
Something about all the movies I have ever watched but I can never get my head out of crime, corruption and mafia whenever I hear their country mentioned - Stereotypes I know.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - lazyengineer - 07-28-2021
It's much easier to import thermal into US than to export. From what I can tell, Pulsar's are made predominantly for the Euro market, with some final assembly in the US for the US market, but with Euro market components.
In the Euro market it's all bolt actions, and in some venues illegal to even take a follow-up shot [or so I'm told]. So a heavy high magnification unit that looks like a classic rifle scope for that slow and sure first shot matters a lot. In the US, being compact and fitting on a fast follow-up AR15 matters more.
I can see getting both styles as one gets more and more serious about night hunting. For the intro-purchase: keeping the price point down and having that wider field of view for AR15 usage seemed to me like the place to start. But I still wanted to do it with a keeper, not a starter&then-sell unit; which I think I achieved. Well, I think so at least.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - Klem - 07-28-2021
What country does not permit a second shot? Seems a strange rule given a humane kill might need a coup de grace.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - Double Naught Spy - 07-28-2021
lazyengineer Wrote:In the Euro market it's all bolt actions, and in some venues illegal to even take a follow-up shot. So a heavy high magnification unit that looks like a classic rifle scope for that slow and sure first shot matters a lot. In the US, being compact and fitting on a fast follow-up AR15 matters more.
I am not sure that the logic follows. Pulsars don't have high magnification. Thermions aren't particularly heavy, either. The looks of the "classic rifle scope" are simply for use with scope rings, which is more popular with the European market, in large part due to the use of bolt actions.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - lazyengineer - 07-28-2021
Klem Wrote:What country does not permit a second shot? Seems a strange rule given a humane kill might need a coup de grace.
Donno, just what was said
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - lazyengineer - 07-28-2021
So I mounted it and weighed the gun with an empty magazine in place. 7.1# total. Not bad! Not featherweight, but not bad. That's on par or less than an M4 with an ACOG; but in this case running Thermal.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - Double Naught Spy - 07-28-2021
lazyengineer Wrote:Donno, just what was said
So just hearsay? You have no idea what country supposedly has this law? It isn't going to be France, Germany, or Great Britain which are going to be the largest markets for Pulsar in Eurpoe.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - lazyengineer - 07-28-2021
Pretty much hearsay. Anyway, it was conversational. ...
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - lazyengineer - 07-28-2021
Here's the answer when I asked for more info on the single-shot topic:
"A single shot is required in some federal states of Germany (hunting is regulated by the current local government laws), as well as in Austria and Denmark."
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - Klem - 07-28-2021
lazyengineer Wrote:Here's the answer when I asked for more info on the single-shot topic:
"A single shot is required in some federal states of Germany (hunting is regulated by the current local government laws), as well as in Austria and Denmark."
Lazy,
I don't want to derail this topic but have just spent some time trying to find this rule online and with respect, cannot find mention of it. Could not find any mention about single-shots in Denmark and Germany, but did not check Austria.
How can a hunter guarantee being humane with only one shot - watching a wounded animal limp away? It would be difficult to police and easily justified. Even animal welfare groups would agree.
I'm thinking the guy who was selling you a scope was on a roll.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - lazyengineer - 07-28-2021
Klem Wrote:Lazy,
I don't want to derail this topic but have just spent some time trying to find this rule online and with respect, cannot find mention of it. Could not find any mention about single-shots in Denmark and Germany, but did not check Austria.
How can a hunter guarantee being humane with only one shot - watching a wounded animal limp away? It would be difficult to police and easily justified. Even animal welfare groups would agree.
I'm thinking the guy who was selling you a scope was on a roll.
[Oh well]
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - A5BLASTER - 07-29-2021
Congrats on the thermal optic sir.
Hope it works out exactly as you hoped for.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - Klem - 07-29-2021
Lazy,
I think you are reading way too much into this.
Not having a go at you at all, just genuinely curious about a weird gun law you were quoting. It's all thrown in with your story about the Russian guy. If he's quoting rubbish in his sales banter then likely quoting rubbish on some of the technical stuff as well.
Happy to support you if that's what you want.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - Bjorn - 07-31-2021
Lazy, good thread and good review above. I am in the same price point and was looking at the Hogster for the reasons you stated. Friend has one and I got to look through it at night at some deer earlier this summer. Pretty cool.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - mblackmon4 - 01-09-2022
Pretty cool write up. I just got the Burris bts 50 for my primary thermal and I was looking at the hogster 25 for a handheld scanner unit and can throw it on a gun if someone wants to hunt with me.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - lazyengineer - 01-09-2022
mblackmon4 Wrote:Pretty cool write up. I just got the Burris bts 50 for my primary thermal and I was looking at the hogster 25 for a handheld scanner unit and can throw it on a gun if someone wants to hunt with me.
You bet. Have run it on several hunts. Nothing compared to the extensive usage others here do, so I can't definitively say much. But I ran it for several hours straight a few times, and have run it maybe a dozen or so times between range outings and hunts. (btw, you can daylight shoot at paper targets with Thermal, better than I was expecting. You don't need hot-pockets). I quite like it, and when comparing it to Pulsars, found it half the weight and half the price for the same image quality (maybe better, depending), and same durability. The only field failure I had was initially I was running a battery pack in my back pocket with the power cable. Bad idea - as hunting is just hard on stuff, and the cable connector to something not mounted directly with the gun, got crushed as I went from sitting positions in the dark and back and forth. Didn't hurt the scope, but did trash the cable in my back pocket.
So I changed that up. Here's how I run it now, with a very light 1" diameter Li-rechargeable batter on an offset quick release flashlight mount. Doesn't weigh anything. This way I keep it running all night via external battery power, and then the onboard CR123 batteries I use as the back-up, should the external power fail. the external batterie was like $10, so I bought two. I went this route, as uninterrupted power, even in failure mode; and also, the Bering optics guy warns against internal rechargeable CR123 batteries, as he's seen several very expensive destroyed scopes come back from those when they fail.
The rig is a minimal weight approach concept, just because that's what I wanted to do. So light weight profile 15" pin and weld to 16", with magnesium light weight lower, and light 10" handguard. And this very light Thermal (it's even lighter than its small size looks). When I hunt, I run just a standard 17 round E-Lander, not the bigger mags then that. Sometimes just a 10. I don't run suppressed to keep it light and simple. That, and I don't really have anything registered, and in my own experience, for the weight, expense, regulation, and bulk, I personally have not been satisfied with the degree of suppression one gets from suppression. Obviously, many other folks are. So I just run a simple break to get back on target; with electronic muffs when I hunt for the amplified hearing. But anyway, my point is this Thermal fits in tidy with a weight and bulk minimalist approach, if that's what you are pursuing. And gets you there at about the lowest price point that gets you into the Thermal game, which may be appealing to the twice-a-year level hog hunter.
It ran just fine all night long without every have to be shut off, and never reset or anything like that. A damned nice change from my prior ATN, I'll say that. My ATN prior experience with their basic IR, was not a good experience.
![[Image: 20210831-142930.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/yNZwpb31/20210831-142930.jpg)
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - biodsl - 01-09-2022
Great post, LE. Brillant application for a 1 inch mount and battery pack!
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - Popeye212 - 01-09-2022
I have the Hogster 35mm and all I can say it was a game changer for night hunting. First night 2 hogs I wouldn't have seen with IR or green light method. I hunt from stand with 2 feeders and also suppressed. A cover for the suppressor is a MUST. Daytiime heating alone heats the suppressor enough to distort the thermal. With my old eyes 130yds is the max distance I am comfortable with although I can identify a rabbit at 325. I do wish it had the recording built in but external recording is possible with a jack for an external device. Battery life on the CR123 is acceptable when you use the standby mode. I use an external power source that would last a couple of nights. Lazy thanks for putting that external batter pic up I just ordered 2 also. Much better setup then the one I have. The suppressor in my experience has allowed me to get at least another hog apparently they can't identify what it actually is vs a gunshot that scatters em.
Thermal - went with Bering Optics Hogster 25 mm - lazyengineer - 01-09-2022
Popeye212 Wrote:I have the Hogster 35mm and all I can say it was a game changer for night hunting. First night 2 hogs I wouldn't have seen with IR or green light method. I hunt from stand with 2 feeders and also suppressed. A cover for the suppressor is a MUST. Daytiime heating alone heats the suppressor enough to distort the thermal. With my old eyes 130yds is the max distance I am comfortable with although I can identify a rabbit at 325. I do wish it had the recording built in but external recording is possible with a jack for an external device. Battery life on the CR123 is acceptable when you use the standby mode. I use an external power source that would last a couple of nights. Lazy thanks for putting that external batter pic up I just ordered 2 also. Much better setup then the one I have. The suppressor in my experience has allowed me to get at least another hog apparently they can't identify what it actually is vs a gunshot that scatters em.
Happy to see I was of help!
Just beware, it's tricky finding a round battery the correct diameter for the round flashlight holder. I am really happy with the set up, once I found a true 1" battery to match my 1" mount. I also bought a 6" USB-C cable for it, that has 90degree plug to keep it all tidy and snag-free as possible. The batteries are so cheap, i bought two. By the way, notice the electrical tape on the battery? Most battery packs come with tiny little indicator lights on them, that become Fricking Air-Raid lights, in the middle of the night while hog-hunting, just so you know. These particularly units are less obnoxious than most, but all the same that's why I keep a piece of electrical tape already on-hand, just in case I want to cover that up.