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Buffer Weight Question - JTB - 06-20-2021
I was recently having a conversation with someone regarding buffer weights and effects of them on different gas lengths. This is pertaining the the MSR/AR platform as a whole. Its was said to me that if you go heavier in buffer weight you could eventually cause failures in other parts of the rifle. So Im thinking what is the difference in running a rifle extension and buffer and running a carbine extension and H3. Which has been done with no ill effects that I know of as the platform has developed thru out years. What brought this up was that I acquired a slightly over gassed carbine that I was going to put an H2 or H3 in and see how it ran. Running H right now and ejection 2:15-2:30. Question is has anyone ever experienced failure with swapping buffer weights to heavier? Im no expert Im still learning like everyone else. School me. Seems like running to light a buffer will have more ill effects.
I will add that I could run an adjustable block but I dont care for them because of carbon locking. But really I think the H3 will do it.
Buffer Weight Question - A5BLASTER - 06-20-2021
The person who told you that, is not very well informed. Going heavier on the buffer will not cause parts to wear out. It will either fix the inherent overgas built into the system and get your cases landing in the 3 to 330 area Or it will cause you to go undergassed and the gun will not properly run.
It will slightly increase the amount of muzzle movement due too the increase in weight being slammed around in the gun but it wont effect part life other then make it better.
Buffer Weight Question - JTB - 06-20-2021
A5BLASTER Wrote:The person who told you that, is not very well informed. Going heavier on the buffer will not cause parts to wear out. It will either fix the inherent overgas built into the system and get your cases landing in the 3 to 330 area Or it will cause you to go undergassed and the gun will not properly run.
It will slightly increase the amount of muzzle movement due too the increase in weight being slammed around in the gun but it wont effect part life other then make it better.
A5 that was my thought as well. I would toss the barrel and get one with appropriate gas port but it shoots good and I dont want to just throw it away or rebuild a good shooting upper. As opposed what are your thoughts on overgassing. What would give up Im thinking locking lugs or cracked bolt is the outcome of over gassing for a couple thousand rounds.
Buffer Weight Question - Mad Charlie - 06-20-2021
I think you're right.
Go with the heavier buffer or maybe a stronger spring.
Buffer Weight Question - JTB - 06-20-2021
Mad Charlie Wrote:I think you're right.
Go with the heavier buffer or maybe a stronger spring.
I put in a Sprinco Red spring and I had been running an H1. I am going to try an H2 and H3. Not for reduced recoil but to prevent early unlocking. I also came across a company called Black River Tactical that will drill a gas tube port in a specified size for you. You need to order a size above what you want. Example if I want a .063 I need to order a .065. The rifle has a .074 port size at the moment so I could get one of those to try out as well. But I think the buffer will do it. Its hard to justify 60$ for a gas tube you know. It would probably run from now on over gassed but we learn by these test right.
Buffer Weight Question - A5BLASTER - 06-20-2021
JTB Wrote:A5 that was my thought as well. I would toss the barrel and get one with appropriate gas port but it shoots good and I dont want to just throw it away or rebuild a good shooting upper. As opposed what are your thoughts on overgassing. What would give up Im thinking locking lugs or cracked bolt is the outcome of over gassing for a couple thousand rounds.
Several things can take more wear and die sooner by being over gassed to include, guide surfaces on the bcg, bolt lugs, extractor, cam pin, gas rings. It can also damage your buffer and spring because they are trying to fight a system that's moving faster then it should and slamming into the end of the buffer tube.
I wouldnt worrie about trying to drill out the gas port that will only let in more gas and you will need even more buffer weight to slow down the bolt opening and get the gun back properly gassed.
I would add one tungsten weight to what you have going now and see what it does.
Buffer Weight Question - JTB - 06-20-2021
A5BLASTER Wrote:Several things can take more wear and die sooner by being over gassed to include, guide surfaces on the bcg, bolt lugs, extractor, cam pin, gas rings. It can also damage your buffer and spring because they are trying to fight a system that's moving faster then it should and slamming into the end of the buffer tube.
I wouldnt worrie about trying to drill out the gas port that will only let in more gas and you will need even more buffer weight to slow down the bolt opening and get the gun back properly gassed.
I would add one tungsten weight to what you have going now and see what it does.
I added a weight so it is an H2 now. I am going to try and make it over to my brothers house to test it out. Taking an H3 as well. Ill tell you this overgassing has caused eratic ejection. The BCG is moving so fast the brass is actually hitting the back of the ejection port. And a few times I feel like the bolt came forward and actually hit the spent brass before it got out of the port H1 and Sprinco Red tamed that down a little. I will report back when I try it all out and let you all know the effects.
Buffer Weight Question - A5BLASTER - 06-20-2021
JTB Wrote:I added a weight so it is an H2 now. I am going to try and make it over to my brothers house to test it out. Taking an H3 as well. Ill tell you this overgassing has caused eratic ejection. The BCG is moving so fast the brass is actually hitting the back of the ejection port. And a few times I feel like the bolt came forward and actually hit the spent brass before it got out of the port H1 and Sprinco Red tamed that down a little. I will report back when I try it all out and let you all know the effects.
Good tip is buffer weight for slowing down unlocking, buffer spring for return to battery.
Buffer Weight Question - Oryx - 06-21-2021
Has anyone tried out the JM Magnetic buffer? I'm reserving judgement until more reviews and testing ... Looks pretty simple to adjust/tune.
Buffer Weight Question - montana - 06-21-2021
The buffer weight needed is determined by the users intent, the rifle's gas system and BCG recoil friction.
AB is correct when he stated: It will either fix the inherent over gas built into the system, or it will cause you to go under gassed and the gun will not properly run. It will slightly increase the amount of muzzle movement due too the increase in weight being slammed around in the gun.
The heavier the buffer, the more energy the BCG has to strip a round from the magazine and the slower the BCG recoil velocity becomes. Vice versa with lighter buffers.. Sometimes a heavy buffer is not enough to correct an over gassed rifle, when the gas port is way over sized. Then an adj gas block becomes necessary.
I prefer to use an adj gas block to dial in my ammunition, "with a Micro slick BCG and upper BCG channel" using the lightest possible buffer weight in the JP SCS. I like to obtain the least amount of recoil, "that is reliable" for the intent of my rifle...
The easiest answer to your rifle's problem is to do just as you are doing by increasing your buffer weight or and selecting the right buffer spring with your buffer from Sprico's chart.https://www.sprinco.com/ar-buffer.html
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTUx9Jdl26X/?taken-by=sprincousa
Buffer Weight Question - Klem - 06-21-2021
JT,
There won't be much difference between a rifle extension/rifle buffer and carbine extension/H3 - they are the same weight.
A H3 buffer is between 5 and 5.4oz whereas a rifle buffer is 5.1-5.2oz - so pretty much the same. A rifle spring is slightly longer but I doubt that will make much of a difference either.
Worse case scenario is you go too heavy and the BCG doesn't reciprocate fully. So, doesn't lock back on last round and/or doesn't recock the trigger or even feed jams. But, a heavier buffer won't wear the gun out or damage it because it is heavier.
Buffer Weight Question - montana - 06-21-2021
Oryx Wrote:Has anyone tried out the JM Magnetic buffer? I'm reserving judgement until more reviews and testing ... Looks pretty simple to adjust/tune.
More snake oil IMO. Reminds me of the Hydraulic buffers that did nothing to dampen recoil. Uses magnets instead of a hydraulic buffer.. If you want smoother recoil, then go with JP SCP, an adj gas block and or a good muzzle comp. The Vltor A5 can also soften the recoil impulse "longer recoil spring and stroke" with a collapsible stock.
Buffer Weight Question - Oryx - 06-21-2021
I've seen a lot of similar feedback and tend to think the same ... just interested to see more actual results. Many new ideas get shot down prior to any experience. Also, not every accessory is a one size fits all solution and someone will always find a way to poo poo something if it doesn't fit into their application. Just keeping an open mind at this point.
Buffer Weight Question - montana - 06-21-2021
Oryx Wrote:I've seen a lot of similar feedback and tend to think the same ... just interested to see more actual results. Many new ideas get shot down prior to any experience. Also, not every accessory is a one size fits all solution and someone will always find a way to poo poo something if it doesn't fit into their application. Just keeping an open mind at this point.
I have found when it comes to anything AR, opinions will always vary across the board. Remember one thing, "the entire purpose of manufacturers and their payed endorsers" is to separate you from your money. Use only the components to fit the objective of your build. Certain AR components do not always transition to every build objective, can be a waste of money and even detrimental to the build objective...
Buffer Weight Question - VASCAR2 - 06-21-2021
My first 6.5 Grendel upper I purchased from J&T Distributing (sister company to Double Star) was a 16 barrel with fixed front sight and carbine length hand guard. This upper was over gassed and I tried a T2 and H2 buffers but I didnt like the inconsistent ejection when I shot a variety of ammo. I finally fixed this upper to my satisfaction by using an Rubber City Armory adjustable gas carrier key. The gas port on this barrel is way to large but using the set screws in the carrier key I can throttle the gas. This upper now functions like it had the correct size gas port.
Trying different buffers helps but the root cause of my problem was the volume and gas pressure. Once I set the adjustable carrier key this upper behaves just like my other 16 6.5 Grendel with the appropriate size gas port. I have tried reloads using 85 grain, 100, 107 and 123 grains. Functioning has been gtg and my brass is in a lot better condition. I was finishing a build and needed a new bolt carrier. I bought a stripped bolt carrier and used the RCA adjustable carrier key. I moved the bolt carrier from my J&T to my new build and used the new BCG with the adjustable carrier in my J&T. This was the best and least expensive solution to this 16 upper. If I used suppressors the adjustable carrier key is not as easy to change as adjustable gas blocks. I live in Illinois where suppressors are illegal so the adjustable carrier key was suitable for my situation.
If you still have issues with your upper after trying H2 & H3 buffers the adjustable carrier key might work. I dont plan on changing my gas settings on my carrier key as it seems to function correctly regardless of my ammo.
https://www.righttobear.com/RCA-Adjustable-Gas-Key-p/1ad-gky.htm
Buffer Weight Question - JTB - 06-26-2021
Klem Wrote:JT,
There won't be much difference between a rifle extension/rifle buffer and carbine extension/H3 - they are the same weight.
A H3 buffer is between 5 and 5.4oz whereas a rifle buffer is 5.1-5.2oz - so pretty much the same. A rifle spring is slightly longer but I doubt that will make much of a difference either.
Worse case scenario is you go too heavy and the BCG doesn't reciprocate fully. So, doesn't lock back on last round and/or doesn't recock the trigger or even feed jams. But, a heavier buffer won't wear the gun out or damage it because it is heavier.
That was my thoughts as well. I can see early unlocking and to much bolt speed being what would really damage something in the long term.
Buffer Weight Question - JTB - 06-26-2021
VASCAR2 Wrote:My first 6.5 Grendel upper I purchased from J&T Distributing (sister company to Double Star) was a 16 barrel with fixed front sight and carbine length hand guard. This upper was over gassed and I tried a T2 and H2 buffers but I didnt like the inconsistent ejection when I shot a variety of ammo. I finally fixed this upper to my satisfaction by using an Rubber City Armory adjustable gas carrier key. The gas port on this barrel is way to large but using the set screws in the carrier key I can throttle the gas. This upper now functions like it had the correct size gas port.
Trying different buffers helps but the root cause of my problem was the volume and gas pressure. Once I set the adjustable carrier key this upper behaves just like my other 16 6.5 Grendel with the appropriate size gas port. I have tried reloads using 85 grain, 100, 107 and 123 grains. Functioning has been gtg and my brass is in a lot better condition. I was finishing a build and needed a new bolt carrier. I bought a stripped bolt carrier and used the RCA adjustable carrier key. I moved the bolt carrier from my J&T to my new build and used the new BCG with the adjustable carrier in my J&T. This was the best and least expensive solution to this 16 upper. If I used suppressors the adjustable carrier key is not as easy to change as adjustable gas blocks. I live in Illinois where suppressors are illegal so the adjustable carrier key was suitable for my situation.
If you still have issues with your upper after trying H2 & H3 buffers the adjustable carrier key might work. I dont plan on changing my gas settings on my carrier key as it seems to function correctly regardless of my ammo.
https://www.righttobear.com/RCA-Adjustable-Gas-Key-p/1ad-gky.htm
I am getting the inconsistent ejection patterns as well. I ordered a a gas tube from Black River Tactical that is sized correctly for my rifle. You let them know buffer weight, suppressed or non suppressed, buffer spring, existing gas port is optional, and what ammo you run (in my case brass and steel). I will report back on how it works. I have a superlative adjustable I can put on it. I will let everyone know how this BRT gas tube works out.
Buffer Weight Question - JTB - 06-26-2021
VASCAR2 Wrote:My first 6.5 Grendel upper I purchased from J&T Distributing (sister company to Double Star) was a 16 barrel with fixed front sight and carbine length hand guard. This upper was over gassed and I tried a T2 and H2 buffers but I didnt like the inconsistent ejection when I shot a variety of ammo. I finally fixed this upper to my satisfaction by using an Rubber City Armory adjustable gas carrier key. The gas port on this barrel is way to large but using the set screws in the carrier key I can throttle the gas. This upper now functions like it had the correct size gas port.
Trying different buffers helps but the root cause of my problem was the volume and gas pressure. Once I set the adjustable carrier key this upper behaves just like my other 16 6.5 Grendel with the appropriate size gas port. I have tried reloads using 85 grain, 100, 107 and 123 grains. Functioning has been gtg and my brass is in a lot better condition. I was finishing a build and needed a new bolt carrier. I bought a stripped bolt carrier and used the RCA adjustable carrier key. I moved the bolt carrier from my J&T to my new build and used the new BCG with the adjustable carrier in my J&T. This was the best and least expensive solution to this 16 upper. If I used suppressors the adjustable carrier key is not as easy to change as adjustable gas blocks. I live in Illinois where suppressors are illegal so the adjustable carrier key was suitable for my situation.
If you still have issues with your upper after trying H2 & H3 buffers the adjustable carrier key might work. I dont plan on changing my gas settings on my carrier key as it seems to function correctly regardless of my ammo.
https://www.righttobear.com/RCA-Adjustable-Gas-Key-p/1ad-gky.htm
I had to reread that. You used an adjustable key. I had not thought of that. If this tube does not work out that is probably the route I will go. Give me a reason to get a staking tool and swap out to some of those Forward Controls gas key screws. Thanks
Buffer Weight Question - VASCAR2 - 06-26-2021
I used a hammer and punch to stake the adjustable carrier key to the carrier. I torqued the gas key bolts to spec and staked them and so far has been gtg.
Buffer Weight Question - JTB - 06-26-2021
VASCAR2 Wrote:I used a hammer and punch to stake the adjustable carrier key to the carrier. I torqued the gas key bolts to spec and staked them and so far has been gtg.
What sealant if any do you have to use on the screws? Gas tube came in today. It is drilled to .625 so it should restrict the gas down to within spec. If this is not what Im looking for then I am definitely going with the adjustable key. I have read some folks seal them with Indian Head Glue. It is shellac based and handles heat well