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Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - Printable Version

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Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - 7kings - 06-16-2021

Hi. I'm hoping that you guys can help with some advice. I've recently begun taking an interest in pursuing medium range / precision shooting. My club has a 300-yard range and a neighboring club has a 600-yard range. I'd like to set up a rig to allow for precision shooting (within reason - I don't have a ton of cash to dump into it and I know it gets expensive quick).

I was fairly set on putting together a 6.5 Grendel upper when I realized that I had an old (well, 15 or more years old) Savage model 11 .243 Winchester in the back of my safe. I bought it when the kids were younger to teach them to shoot on something a little larger than 22LR and haven't thought much about it in years. It was a Bass Pro package that had a mossy oak camo stock and matching cheap Simmons 3-9x40 scope on it. It has a thin profile barrel and an accu-trigger.

So here's the question - am I better-off going the 6.5G upper route or instead replacing the stock (not a fan of the mossy oak camo) and putting a decent scope on the Savage? I'm only interested in punching paper, but I'd like to do it with some accuracy.

I appreciate the input.


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - Lemonaid - 06-16-2021

Is your precision shooting interest just an individual pursuit or entering into matches? A good scope could go on either rifle so I would get one for your savage and see what it can do. If you want to compete, go to a match and see what others are using. The Precision Rifle Blog is an excellent site, it has a category "What the pro's use." check that out. https://precisionrifleblog.com/category/what-the-pros-use/


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - 7kings - 06-16-2021

Lemonaid Wrote:Is your precision shooting interest just an individual pursuit or entering into matches? A good scope could go on either rifle so I would get one for your savage and see what it can do. If you want to compete, go to a match and see what others are using. The Precision Rifle Blog is an excellent site, it has a category "What the pro's use." check that out. https://precisionrifleblog.com/category/what-the-pros-use/

As far as my goals for precision shooting, initially I'm really interested in it as an individual pursuit. Of course, that's not to say that I wouldn't eventually be interested in matches, but that's not what's driving me right now. I know the .243 is a great cartridge for long-range and precision shooting in general, and has a long history behind it, so I feel good about the caliber.

Thanks for the advice.

Brian


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - biodsl - 06-16-2021

Brian...I'd be inclined to start with what you have. It might be fun to maximize your performance with what you have right now.
Do you reload? You could start by trying to develop an accurate load for 300 yards. You don't even need high BC bullets at that distance. I suspect you could shoot some small groups with the right bullet in your current rifle.
You can always spend more money later Smile


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - Klem - 06-16-2021

Brian,

For paper punching, if it is results you are after I would stick with the 243 in the bolt gun. If it is comfort and semi auto fun then go the Grendel in an AR.

Look at your barrel, scope and trigger either way.


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - Rosecrans1 - 06-16-2021

Hi Brian,

Without investing much in the Savage 243, just see how it shoots with the mossy oak stock on it. See if that barrel free-floats first while in the stock. (dollar bill should slide up to the forward lug at the chamber without impeding).
I have a SA 110 and a 16 savage in 7mm08 for hunting. Both barrels are thin-profiles and are very very accurate UNTIL the third shot then they start to gap quite a bit.
300 and 600 yard shooting of a 6.5 Grendel AR or bolt rifle is a breeze with the right barrel, trigger and optics. If the Savage is all over the place on 5 shot groups, you may want to look at a Grendel upper or look at a replacement barrel for the Savage with a heavier profile. (but if it has no accu-trigger, that would need upgraded also along with the stock most likely). :p


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - LR1955 - 06-16-2021

7kings Wrote:As far as my goals for precision shooting, initially I'm really interested in it as an individual pursuit. Of course, that's not to say that I wouldn't eventually be interested in matches, but that's not what's driving me right now. I know the .243 is a great cartridge for long-range and precision shooting in general, and has a long history behind it, so I feel good about the caliber.

Thanks for the advice.

Brian

This is a rare case where I would recommend a Grendel as long as it is quality. I seriously doubt your Savage hunting rifle will perform well and the thing about 243's is an incredibly poor barrel life. You are looking at fifteen hundred rounds to a new barrel where the Grendel will go seven or ten thousand rounds.

The Grendel is a sure looser against more capable cartridges being shot from match rifles but at 300 yards it will be fine as long as you don't have a lot of wind blowing. At 600 its low velocity causes big problems in winds compared to more capable cartridges.

That said and given only a choice between a quality 6.5 Grendel and a hunting grade .243, a quality Grendel will be a better choice for competitive purposes and marksmanship training in general.

LR55


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - 7kings - 06-16-2021

biodsl Wrote:Brian...I'd be inclined to start with what you have. It might be fun to maximize your performance with what you have right now.
Do you reload? You could start by trying to develop an accurate load for 300 yards. You don't even need high BC bullets at that distance. I suspect you could shoot some small groups with the right bullet in your current rifle.
You can always spend more money later Smile

Thanks biodsl. I don't currently reload rifle, but I've been reloading my handgun calibers for a long time on a Dillon 550b. Whichever I go with, I plan on reloading that caliber as well (as soon as anyone can find primers anywhere again, that is).

Klem Wrote:Brian,

For paper punching, if it is results you are after I would stick with the 243 in the bolt gun. If it is comfort and semi auto fun then go the Grendel in an AR.

Look at your barrel, scope and trigger either way.

Thanks Klem - the Savage has the AccuTrigger on it, so I think I'm okay on that front.

Rosecrans1 Wrote:Hi Brian,

Without investing much in the Savage 243, just see how it shoots with the mossy oak stock on it. See if that barrel free-floats first while in the stock. (dollar bill should slide up to the forward lug at the chamber without impeding).
I have a SA 110 and a 16 savage in 7mm08 for hunting. Both barrels are thin-profiles and are very very accurate UNTIL the third shot then they start to gap quite a bit.
300 and 600 yard shooting of a 6.5 Grendel AR or bolt rifle is a breeze with the right barrel, trigger and optics. If the Savage is all over the place on 5 shot groups, you may want to look at a Grendel upper or look at a replacement barrel for the Savage with a heavier profile. (but if it has no accu-trigger, that would need upgraded also along with the stock most likely). :p

Thanks Rosecrans1. The barrel does free-float on the factory stock (it's just so damned ugly Smile ). I do have the AccuTrigger, which I've always liked.

I'm starting to think that I'll give the Savage a run for a while and see how I like it. Like Lemonaid pointed out above, I'll need decent glass for either one, so I'll probably start with that. If I decide to go the 6.5G route after playing with the Savage for a while, I can always transplant the scope over to the new upper and I haven't lost anything.

I appreciate all the feedback.

Brian


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - VASCAR2 - 06-16-2021

You can always paint a stock or use a wrap to get past the appearance. If you decide to get another AR-15 upper you might consider the 6 MM ARC. The 6 MM ARC uses the same .243 bullets as your 243 Winchester Savage but uses a necked down 6.5 Grendel case to 6 MM/243. At least you’d have commonality of bullets.

For hunting I think the 6.5 Grendel has an edge of performance over the 6 MM ARC on medium size game. For purely target shooting and varmint hunting I think the 6 MM ARC is a little better than the 6.5 Grendel. I have several 6.5 Grendel rifles but no 6 MM ARC rifles but it is worth considering.

I think you’ve gotten good advise and think buying a different scope and start shooting your 243. If you like target shooting maybe add another cartridge for the AR-15. With either the 6.5 Grendel or 6 MM ARC you can use your 5.56/223 lower. If your lower has is a mil spec single stage trigger you might consider a better trigger. On an AR-15 the most important items are a Quality barrel, good optic or sights and a good trigger.


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - 7kings - 06-16-2021

VASCAR2 Wrote:You can always paint a stock or use a wrap to get past the appearance. If you decide to get another AR-15 upper you might consider the 6 MM ARC. The 6 MM ARC uses the same .243 bullets as your 243 Winchester Savage but uses a necked down 6.5 Grendel case to 6 MM/243. At least you’d have commonality of bullets.

For hunting I think the 6.5 Grendel has an edge of performance over the 6 MM ARC on medium size game. For purely target shooting and varmint hunting I think the 6 MM ARC is a little better than the 6.5 Grendel. I have several 6.5 Grendel rifles but no 6 MM ARC rifles but it is worth considering.

I think you’ve gotten good advise and think buying a different scope and start shooting your 243. If you like target shooting maybe add another cartridge for the AR-15. With either the 6.5 Grendel or 6 MM ARC you can use your 5.56/223 lower. If your lower has is a mil spec single stage trigger you might consider a better trigger. On an AR-15 the most important items are a Quality barrel, good optic or sights and a good trigger.

That's funny - I had been toying with the idea of the 6mm ARC after reading a lot of comparison articles between it and the 6.5G. My only real concern is how young it is and whether it will gain a solid foothold (and it's not a big concern, especially since it was developed by Hornady, so it has a level of built-in industry support). In the ranges I'm talking about (even the 600 yard range), I think any of them (.243 Win, 6.5G, 6mm ARC) will be more than capable and much more accurate than I am.

That being said, I'd be lying if I said that I haven't gotten a bit bored with the .223 and I'm looking for some variety. The prospect of adding another upper to the safe in a different caliber is attractive, but then again, so is spending some time on a bolt gun. I'm also self-aware enough to know that the "cool factor" of a 6.5G or 6mm ARC plays a part in it. Big Grin

I don't do any hunting and don't know that I'll be doing any in the near future, so this is primarily for punching paper and seeing how tight I can get my groups at distance.

Thanks for the input - this is all great information.

Brian


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - A5BLASTER - 06-16-2021

Honestly the 243 you own now will be the cheapest route to go but it will never give you Precision out to 600 yards without handloads, a better stock and then it's not going to be very good at 600 yards due too a barrel with to fast of a twist too use the better long distance bullets needed to beat the wind.

Since your wanting it for your own training and enjoyment shooting to 600 yards. I say go grendel but understand dont go rack grade on the barrel. Have your barrel made custom, go with a 24 inch barrel to get the most speed you can get with factory ammo.

In fact my best advice is to call Mark at Precision firearms and tell him what your wanting to do and what he suggest from his products to get that best fits your budget and gives you the accuracy/ precision your hoping to have.

I think Mark still gives his new member first order discount.


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - pavementends - 06-16-2021

A5BLASTER Wrote:Honestly the 243 you own now will be the cheapest route to go but it will never give you Precision out to 600 yards without handloads, a better stock and then it's not going to be very good at 600 yards due too a barrel with to fast of a twist too use the better long distance bullets needed to beat the wind.

Since your wanting it for your own training and enjoyment shooting to 600 yards. I say go grendel but understand dont go rack grade on the barrel. Have your barrel made custom, go with a 24 inch barrel to get the most speed you can get with factory ammo.

In fact my best advice is to call Mark at Precision firearms and tell him what your wanting to do and what he suggest from his products to get that best fits your budget and gives you the accuracy/ precision your hoping to have.

I think Mark still gives his new member first order discount.



A5blaster, Are you sure about the barrel twist being too fast for long bullets? I believe you have that backwards.


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - Mesa1978 - 06-16-2021

Savage.

You can change the barrel out on the 11 with the nut system, if the current barrel isn't satisfactory, as long as the barrel channel can accommodate the new barrel, or be made to fit, for less than a new precision Grendel, to see if you like the game.


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - 7kings - 06-16-2021

A5BLASTER Wrote:Honestly the 243 you own now will be the cheapest route to go but it will never give you Precision out to 600 yards without handloads, a better stock and then it's not going to be very good at 600 yards due too a barrel with to fast of a twist too use the better long distance bullets needed to beat the wind.

Since your wanting it for your own training and enjoyment shooting to 600 yards. I say go grendel but understand dont go rack grade on the barrel. Have your barrel made custom, go with a 24 inch barrel to get the most speed you can get with factory ammo.

In fact my best advice is to call Mark at Precision firearms and tell him what your wanting to do and what he suggest from his products to get that best fits your budget and gives you the accuracy/ precision your hoping to have.

I think Mark still gives his new member first order discount.

Most of my shooting is honestly going to be 300 yards, since that's what my club has. I'll definitely want to get up to the 600 yard range periodically, but mostly I'll be at my own club. I will be handloading as soon as I can get rifle components again (unless you can figure out how I can use SPP or LPP for rifle loads Big Grin ), but for now I was planning on trying a selection of factory ammo just to see what the gun likes (whichever direction I take).

Mesa1978 Wrote:Savage.

You can change the barrel out on the 11 with the nut system, if the current barrel isn't satisfactory, as long as the barrel channel can accommodate the new barrel, or be made to fit, for less than a new precision Grendel, to see if you like the game.

Good thinking.

I think probably the way I'm going to proceed first is to get some decent glass on the Savage and see if the precision shooting bug bites me. I'm thinking it likely will, since I have natural tendencies to really enjoy the painstaking details of whatever I'm doing. Although I don't like to admit it in mixed company Big Grin, I really enjoy the precision and mechanics of reloading and count it as one of the highlights of the shooting hobby.

Besides, there's nothing preventing me from getting a 6.5G upper as well, right?


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - Mesa1978 - 06-16-2021

As an aside, i purchased a Savage 110 Precision and cheap Vortex Diamondback Tactical for the price of a premium Grendel AR upper. The stock Savage bolt shoots tighter groups, but the Savage isn't too popular in PRS because of feeding challenges of the 110 action, some actions are better than others. I beveled the ejector and have reliability now.


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - 7kings - 06-16-2021

Mesa1978 Wrote:As an aside, i purchased a Savage 110 Precision and cheap Vortex Diamondback Tactical for the price of a premium Grendel AR upper. The stock Savage bolt shoots tighter groups, but the Savage isn't too popular in PRS because of feeding challenges of the 110 action, some actions are better than others. I beveled the ejector and have reliability now.

I have a Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16x44 FFP on an AR and have been exceptionally pleased with it. I think it's hard to beat for the money. Just wish I had gone MOA instead of MRAD (I still think in imperial measurements and it's easier to think ~1" @ 100yds = 1 MOA). I'll probably buy another one for this rifle, but in MOA.


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - drewthebrave - 06-16-2021

Let's see how the Savage shoots! A cheap bolt gun is often more precise than an expensive semi-auto, and Savage has a pretty good reputation for accuracy with the excellent Accutrigger. If you're just looking dip your toes in the precision shooting world, I think you have the perfect entry level tool for the job.


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - 7kings - 06-16-2021

drewthebrave Wrote:Let's see how the Savage shoots! A cheap bolt gun is often more precise than an expensive semi-auto, and Savage has a pretty good reputation for accuracy with the excellent Accutrigger. If you're just looking dip your toes in the precision shooting world, I think you have the perfect entry level tool for the job.

Thanks drewthebrave - that's what it's sounding like. Now just waiting on the pic rail for the Savage to come in and I'll probably transplant the Vortex Diamondback from my other rifle while I'm figuring out the permanent glass for this one. I have 4 different boxes of factory .243 ammo on the way and with luck I'll be able to get down to the club this weekend (although I'm doubtful I'll have everything here in time).


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - grayfox - 06-22-2021

Main holdup on a 243 besides a thin barrel is the relative slower twist and long brass body... makes it hard to shoot high BC bullets but there’s a 105, 103 or 107 that will work for you.
other possibilities if you’re going to rebarrel (which I recommend) is do a 6mm creedmoor. Plus get a decent stock on it.
but before you sink anything in re-doing the gun look at availability of brass, primers, powders and bullets. Heck even store ammo is expensive right now so ability to hand load is the way to go but not assured due to lack of components. Make sure you have the pieces you need before going one way or the other.
I have several savages, put them into an mdt or chassis, plus a ruger predator in 6 creed in a magpul stock, shoots lights out... for me anyway! But remake the rifle into the system that works for you. Lots of fun IMO.


Looking for advice - 6.5G upper or .243 bolt gun? - Oryx - 06-22-2021

I say shoot what you have and see if you're going to stick with it. In my years of competitive shooting (Club and competitive) the people around you will help you out, lend you equipment to try and show you other options. Once you get going, your desired set up may change quickly based on what is competitive and working for others.

If you stick with it, you'll likely start upgrading anyway. When you do the adage is "buy once, cry once". Most everyone tries to save a nickel going with something they think they can get away with rather than something they want and know would be a better option. Looking back I would recommend saving up the cash and work the plan that you know is best - lots of money wasted trying to save money.

You didn't mention much info on the competitive format but there might be other equipment needed as well? Rest, Spotting scope, Mat, targets, timers, slings/bipods and tons of ammo .... really depends on what type of format.... point is if money is an object, you may need to factor in other items in your budget.