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Greetings from Italy - Enrico Togni - 12-15-2020
Hello guys. Thanks for accepting me. I am a fresh 6,5 Grendel owner. I just got a second hand but like new CZ 527 MTR Varmint that have joined to my rifles collection. I wish it will be a proper complement to my Sako 6PPC USA when shooting on windy conditions at longer distances despite I don't expect even close performances with it in terms of tight groups.Anyway I like to challenge with new weapons and I am confident it wil be a funny way to spend my time.
I wish to obtain hints and tricks from you in order to get the best possible from my new rifle.
Thanks so much for any help and forgive my horrible English
Greetings from Italy - Chev2500 - 12-15-2020
Welcome Enrico!
Greetings from Italy - sundowner - 12-16-2020
Welcome the the horde from Wisconsin .
Greetings from Italy - VASCAR2 - 12-16-2020
Welcome to the forum Enrico Togni. There is at least one other forum member from Italy.
Greetings from Italy - peak98 - 12-16-2020
Welcome to the Horde from just down da bayou. Your English is wayyyyy better than my Italian, keep us informed on how you CZ shoots please.
peak98
Greetings from Italy - Enrico Togni - 12-16-2020
VASCAR2 Wrote:Welcome to the forum Enrico Togni. There is at least one other forum member from Italy.
Glad, to know! :-) Hope to meet him/her sooner or later.
Greetings from Italy - Enrico Togni - 12-16-2020
Yep. Have to become aquainted with her soon, First test are unfortunately very disappointig so far. a Load with Vihtavuory N133 x 25.0 grs and Nosler Competition 123 grains, @ 200 meters, CCI BR4, delivers five shots groups quite similar to a scattergun pattern. Well above 4 inch center to center
The gentleman who sold me the firearm claims (documented with photo proof ) in a report for a main Italian firearms magazine (Armi e Tiro) five shots groups around 0.33 MOA even if @ just 100 meters. The only variable is the bullets : Lapua Scenar 123 HPBT. COAL 58,1mm (2.289")all the rest beeig the same such as case,primer, brass,and powder. Maybe Nosler might not be compatible with my barrel. Ok, I'll experiment with Lapua Scenars of various tipe.I'll let you informed a.s.a.p. So stay tuned.
Greetings from Italy - VASCAR2 - 12-17-2020
You might try some N540 or N-530 powder, N-133 is pretty fast powder. Ive shot a few Nosler CC in my Cz 527 with CFE223 and they shot about 1.5 groups if I remember correctly. This was when my rifle was new prior to adjusting the trigger and relieving the stock to ensure the barrel was free floated. The Lapua Scenar bullets are probably more accurate than the Nosler but quite a bit more expensive gere in the US.
Greetings from Italy - Enrico Togni - 12-17-2020
VASCAR2 Wrote:You might try some N540 or N-530 powder, N-133 is pretty fast powder. Ive shot a few Nosler CC in my Cz 527 with CFE223 and they shot about 1.5 groups if I remember correctly. This was when my rifle was new prior to adjusting the trigger and relieving the stock to ensure the barrel was free floated. The Lapua Scenar bullets are probably more accurate than the Nosler but quite a bit more expensive gere in the US.
Hi Vascar,here in Italy,like in Europe, we mostly have to deal with European powders such as Vihtavuory or Norma so we must use what we have beeing rare and shamefully costly finding
any USA powders (average 70/80 Euro x pound, about $85/90!!! due to import fees, customs duties and vampire distributors... ). I frankly expect tighter groups than 1.5 or even 1 MOA otherwise I would have keept my money in the the pocket. I also have N140 and N130 as well as N135, but not N530, which has about the same burning rate of N130 but is more stable with severe subzero climate, thing that in Rome, were I live never happens.
The barrel is free floated but I probably have to arrange a bedding since the stock has a crude mate to the action. However beeing rather skilled on reloading since 35 year I frankly don't expect miracles. But we are here to play with our own toys, so any attempt will worth in order to squeeze any possible fraction of millimeter/inch off my groups.
Works in progres, I'll let you informed.
Thanks for supporting.
Greetings from Italy - Lemonaid - 12-17-2020
Enrico, welcome to the horde. A few ideas that might help. Use of a chronograph will help a lot for load development and safety.
What is your range results of factory loads? Reload bullet seating depth? Brass used in reloads? Primer used? Barrel condition (number of shots in break in period, amount of copper residue, how often cleaned).
Verify that scope base screws, ring screws, stock screws are tightened to correct torque values, verify that the scope is not a problem by swapping to a known good scope.
Measure at what over all length the bullets you use will touch the lands. (very important in my opinions).
Best of luck and keep posting on your results!
Greetings from Italy - Enrico Togni - 12-18-2020
Hi Lemonaid. Thanks for your hints. Here in Italy we are short of factory loads so have to reload (with my greatest pleasure). Brass used : Lapua. Primers CCI-BR4, neck sized via Redding Type-S and 286 bushing ( too tight and in fact I am waiting for a 288 one) . Bullet used, so far : Nosler Competition 123 gr, a supply came with the purchase of the rifle. Bullet seated 0,010" off the lands having free bore zero obtained by a custom case shot in my own chamber then drilled and threated to be used with Hornady gauge tool and measured base to ogive via the proper 264 insert. The former owner claims that the barrel shot around 200 rounds with minimal breaking inn since CZ told him that their barrels have a very smooth internal finish so they don't need that tedious procedure or it's limited at a minum. Scope mounts are Contessa , about Euro 250,00 picatinny base + 30mm scope rings. Scope installed Vortex Golden Eagle HD 15-60x50; both base and rings were torqued at 35 and 25 in/lb according with manufacturer specs. Boroscope examination shows just a hinf of yellowish deposit now completely removed. Powder used is N133 x25.0 grains. Number of loads shot 20, included zeroing and foulings. Cleaned after 10 rounds with Bore-Tech copper remover solvent, 2 saturated patches, then 15 nylon brush passes through the bore followed by another couple of solvent saturated patches, left 10 minutes inside the bore and finally enough dry patches for the final job. The patches came out very little dirty starting from the second one and the 4th were pratically white. That time I didn't use the chrono and didn't care, to say the truth to torque the action screews; the rifle doesn't rattle but I'll pay attention (any idea about torque values to work with ?)
I include two reference targets shot @ 200 meters with bench rest tecnique. Each circle is 50mm, circa 2" wide. Left one are three 5 shots group with Sako Varmint 6PPC USA , case Norma, CCI BR-4, N130 x 24.8 grains. Sierra MK 70gr HPBT .Free bore zero; the upper group suffered either of cold barrel and wind gusts. In the right one there are two three shots groups with the 6.5 Grendel using the recipe described above. Aiming point respectively upper and lower vertical (central) circles.I think there is very little to comment. Have another couple of targets but I save you the pain since they are even worst... I have now preaperd 20 loads beeing all the same exept the bullet that is now Lapua Scenar 123 gr. Hopefully I'll shoot those a few hours later (here is 3:15 a.m. right now) in the shooting field. I'll post the results.
Thanks so much for reading. [ATTACH=CONFIG]17344[/ATTACH]
Greetings from Italy - Lemonaid - 12-18-2020
From your post it seems like you have most of the variables covered. There was a recent post on this forum where accuracy went bad and was restored to good when the copper in the barrel returned after 50? rounds, some barrels like a good amount of copper.
I am assuming you are doing tests at various seating depths (distances from the lands). I recently came across a interview with David Tubbs on load development and one thing he said jumped out at me, if there is vertical dispersion he would change the powder charge, for horizontal dispersion he would change the bullet seating depth.
Lastly, some barrels just don't like some bullets. The chronograph results might tell if the vertical dispersion was due to large velocity spreads or not and was due to something else like barrel harmonics.
Oh, if there is a muzzle device, even a thread protector be sure to check it's not in a loose state.
Greetings from Italy - just_john - 12-19-2020
Welcome to the clan, ET, from the great nation of Texas! THere is no reason not to expect awesome accuracy with the CZ, it is an excellent rifle. If at all possible, try to get some Hornady 123 Gr factory rounds to try to set a standard. They are a pretty solid "go-to" round for benchmarking. There are a large number of folks across these pages with the CZ that can offer helpful suggestions.
Greetings from Italy - Enrico Togni - 12-19-2020
Thanks to everybody. I made some few tests on yesterday using Lapua Scenar 123 grains instead than Nosler Competition and the results suddenly changed toward the best. Not astonishing but very promising. Here two targets @ 200 meters. Case Lapua. CCI BR 4. Lapua Scenar 123 grains HPBT. Free bore 0,010. Vihtavuori N133. (23grains x left sheet- 25 for the second one) Two, three shots groups plus two fouling shots on upper circle left target..
@ Lemonaid : everything is tight, action screews troerque is 4 n/m , about 40 in/lb. So that the muzzle cap protector. Neither muzzle brake nor silencer. The latter is illegal in Italy.
@ just_john : Yes , as I prewious said we have pratically none factory Grendel ammo in Italy, the only one in catalog is Hornady Frontier 123 gr FMJ currently not available from the distributor. So the only way to use a Grendel here ( there are probably just a handful owners of that caliber in my Country) is reloading.
P.S. I have relatives in TX, they live in El Paso.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]17346[/ATTACH]
Greetings from Italy - Lemonaid - 12-19-2020
According to the VV Grendel web data, their max charge of N133 was 26.7 for the 123 grain Scenar so you have room to explore for accuracy nodes.
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/?cartridge=68