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King of the Grendel round count - Lemonaid - 09-26-2020
Asking forum members with high round count barrels to post here with their results to get a rough idea as to barrel life.
Greatly interested if any have actually shot out a Grendel barrel? Anyone? What was the accuracy or performance degradation that signaled you needed a new barrel? Thanks!
King of the Grendel round count - GregP42 - 09-26-2020
Well, I have put two cases of wolf steel case through my 12" this year. And I haven't seen anything bad with it, I have also shot some regular ammo in it and it still groups well. I have only put about 400 rounds through my contender this year, and I am up to just over 1300 rounds in it, it still shoots just fine, shoots better than I do. I have no idea how many rounds have been down the barrel of my original Grendel, I bought the barrel in a group buy on the first Grendel board back when we were still making brass out of 7.62x29. And it still shoots better than I do as well.
Greg
King of the Grendel round count - A5BLASTER - 09-26-2020
I have shot out 4 alexander arms 16 inch fluted barrels. The ones they dont make anymore. While doing my own bolt breakage testing.
First barrel-13,541 rounds combo of wolf fmj and handloads.
Second barrel-15,167 rounds almost all wolf fmj.
Third barrel-13,478 nearly half and half wolf and handloads.
Forth barrel-11, 041 every single round was a hot handload
King of the Grendel round count - VASCAR2 - 09-26-2020
You opened the door A5B, how many bolts did you have to use to get to those round counts? The cost of the ammo sure exceeded the price of those barrels and bolts, lol.
King of the Grendel round count - A5BLASTER - 09-26-2020
VASCAR2 Wrote:You opened the door A5B, how many bolts did you have to use to get to those round counts? The cost of the ammo sure exceeded the price of those barrels and bolts, lol.
No one would believe me if I told you.
King of the Grendel round count - Lemonaid - 09-26-2020
Thanks A5B, amazing! So 13K or so on average. It must be good to be the King.
King of the Grendel round count - StoneHendge - 09-26-2020
I had a Satern Liberty that could print 5/8 to 3/4 groups on a good day. That got harder and harder to and it would shoot a little better than MOA on a good day so I retired it at around 6k. I was never crazy about the barrel and a BHW 243 LBC at 50% off and was yelling, screaming and jumping up and down waving at me on True Sporting Arms, so I retired the Grendel barrel. I did run the Grendel near maxes. I had the same type of experience with a 5.56 that shot a little tighter (1/2 to 3/4) that I retired at around 8k. In that situation, the BHW 6x45 was 75% off! That was my main practice rifle at the time but also my Prairie Dogger, so I considered retirement ethical. Which is was since 70s at 2990 out of the 6x45 make 'em splat a little more.
Sounds like those undersized Wolf bullets are easy on a barrel!
King of the Grendel round count - VASCAR2 - 09-26-2020
A5BLASTER Wrote:No one would believe me if I told you.
I figured the bolts lasted as long as the barrels but I base that on there being no visible wear on my current 6.5 Grendel AR-15 bolts and a couple have been shot a fair amount.
King of the Grendel round count - Kswhitetails - 09-29-2020
A5 - shhhhh. Don't feed the trolls. Most of the "knowledgeable" among Grendel aficionados know that steel cased Grendel is bad for your barrel... which leads most folks to avoid it like the plague. Thusly ensuring it's low price and availability!
You're far ahead of me. Out of curiosity, did you keep track of throat erosion during your testing?
Very interested in any other variables you may have found interesting on your own as well.
- KS
King of the Grendel round count - tdbru - 10-01-2020
My biggest question, A5,is where did you find time to run over 53,227 rounds down the tubes? that's over 7 boxes a day for an entire year!! did you shoot through a zombie apocalypses or something?
-tdbru
King of the Grendel round count - A5BLASTER - 10-01-2020
tdbru Wrote:My biggest question, A5,is where did you find time to run over 53,227 rounds down the tubes? that's over 7 boxes a day for an entire year!! did you shoot through a zombie apocalypses or something?
-tdbru
Life smiled on me with all the time and money I could ever dream of too do as I wish.
And I was averaging well past 7 box's a day and I did it in a lil over 9 months.
King of the Grendel round count - StoneHendge - 10-02-2020
A5, what's the threshold for degraded accuracy with Wolf? Going from Minute of Pie Plate to Minute of Dinner Plate?
King of the Grendel round count - A5BLASTER - 10-02-2020
StoneHendge Wrote:A5, what's the threshold for degraded accuracy with Wolf? Going from Minute of Pie Plate to Minute of Dinner Plate?
All the barrels averaged 1.5 are just under to start with wolf, I ran the barrels till everything was at 5 inches at 50 yards.
So well past any usable accuracy with any ammo.
King of the Grendel round count - LRRPF52 - 10-04-2020
A buddy of mine who Ive done a lot of custom work for wasn't interested in 6.5 Grendel since he already had plenty of .308 rifles, 5.56 carbines, SBRs, and .300 BLK SBRs.
I told him my experiences with Grendel over the years and why I really like it, the benefits of having it fit in the existing AR15 frame, its ubiquity, etc. He said, It doesnt fill any needs I havent filled already.
He had a certificate for a Proof Carbon Fiber barrel from a long range match sitting around, noticed that it was about to expire.
He called them up, asked if they had any 6.5 CM pipes in-stock, which they didnt. What do you have?
We have a 20 6.5 Grendel.
Long story short, he built one up on Seekins billet set, slapped on Leupold Mark 6, OSS suppressor, ordered a bunch of match ammo, and started shooting it.
Liked it so much, he ordered a bunch of different barrel lengths, including 12.5 Bartlein.
He likes the 12.5 the most, has shot a lot of long range with it, all suppressed I think.
I just dropped off an order the other day, and he mentioned he had 8,714 rounds through it, still clover-leafs.
None of that has been Wolf.
King of the Grendel round count - maximus83 - 10-26-2020
LRRPF52 Wrote:A buddy of mine who Ive done a lot of custom work for wasn't interested in 6.5 Grendel since he already had plenty of .308 rifles, 5.56 carbines, SBRs, and .300 BLK SBRs.
I told him my experiences with Grendel over the years and why I really like it, the benefits of having it fit in the existing AR15 frame, its ubiquity, etc. He said, It doesnt fill any needs I havent filled already.
He had a certificate for a Proof Carbon Fiber barrel from a long range match sitting around, noticed that it was about to expire.
He called them up, asked if they had any 6.5 CM pipes in-stock, which they didnt. What do you have?
We have a 20 6.5 Grendel.
Long story short, he built one up on Seekins billet set, slapped on Leupold Mark 6, OSS suppressor, ordered a bunch of match ammo, and started shooting it.
Liked it so much, he ordered a bunch of different barrel lengths, including 12.5 Bartlein.
He likes the 12.5 the most, has shot a lot of long range with it, all suppressed I think.
I just dropped off an order the other day, and he mentioned he had 8,714 rounds through it, still clover-leafs.
None of that has been Wolf.
Dude that is a great story, and a crazy round count!
You are definitely the 6.5 G guy who makes the persuasive case for it, I read your posts for years on M4carbine.net and you converted me to 6.5 G. I'm liking my 18" PF upper so much that now I'm looking to add a 12.5" pistol. Haven't decide yet whose barrel to use, I know AA sells barrels and uppers but 11.5", but I don't know how accurate their barrels are plus it sounds like 12.5" is really the sweet spot for a Grendel pistol. PF will spin a custom 12.5 using their house PF barrel, a Criterion, or Bartlein or Krieger, already pinged Mark about that. Back to the topic of this thread, I'd expect barrels like Proof, Bartlein and Krieger to have a longer lifespan than most. Would be interesting to learn how much longer in terms of round count, but I haven't seen a direct comparison with data on barrel life between these premium barrels and other ones.
King of the Grendel round count - LRRPF52 - 10-26-2020
I have a 10.5 Criterion barrel from PF I need to build up.
I ordered some parts to complete it that Optics Planet said were in-stock, then got notification that it would take 6-8 weeks before they ship. :mad:
Agreed on the Krieger and Bartlein barrels since they use harder stainless that lasts longer.
JP also cryo-treats their barrels, which increases throat and bore life.
Glad youre enjoying it.
King of the Grendel round count - maximus83 - 10-26-2020
LRRPF52 Wrote:I have a 10.5 Criterion barrel from PF I need to build up.
I ordered some parts to complete it that Optics Planet said were in-stock, then got notification that it would take 6-8 weeks before they ship. :mad:
Agreed on the Krieger and Bartlein barrels since they use harder stainless that lasts longer.
JP also cry-treats their barrels, which increases throat and bore life.
Glad youre enjoying it.
On the 10.5, I'm gonna assume you have already run this or gone over the ballistics in details vs 11.5 and 12.5? Which would you say ballistically is the sweet spot, for a dude like me that'll probably only have one 6.5G pistol?
I'd been hearing 12.5 but not necessarily stuck on that length either. I don't "need" super short, but yeah short is handy if it's only a small ballistic trade-off.
King of the Grendel round count - VASCAR2 - 10-27-2020
I have two 12 6.5 Grendel barrels and Id be surprised if the 12.5 produced 25 FPS more velocity than a 12. The biggest issue right now is finding anything to buy. I think the intended use should determine length of the barrel. I could live with 12.5 but I bought a 12 PSA to test the waters then bought a 12 Monster barrel with 1:7.5 twist which I really like.
For my environment the 12 is a good fit for how I use my 12.
King of the Grendel round count - LRRPF52 - 10-27-2020
maximus83 Wrote:On the 10.5, I'm gonna assume you have already run this or gone over the ballistics in details vs 11.5 and 12.5? Which would you say ballistically is the sweet spot, for a dude like me that'll probably only have one 6.5G pistol?
I'd been hearing 12.5 but not necessarily stuck on that length either. I don't "need" super short, but yeah short is handy if it's only a small ballistic trade-off.
Ballistic sweet spot is the longest barrel you can get for the maximum mv that the case capacity will support.
Most compact is the shortest you can go and still have a reliable firearm.
A balance between the two meets somewhere in the middle.
I got the 10.5 so my kids can shoot something that is more friendly for them when looking at weight/balance, as well as doing some practical field-testing to see what it will do on-target and at distance.
With 123gr, a lot of the data Ive seen puts 10.5 in the 2200fps region for mv.
With the 120gr Federal Match load from my 12, it does 2384fps 15ft from the muzzle average.
That would be 2330fps from the 10.5.
If a 123gr SST does 2300fps from a 12, then it would do 2233fps (2183-2282fps) from a 10.5.
For hunting with the 123gr SST, that would give me a very practical PBZ using a 200yd zero, and plenty of effective range (Im using a more realistic and lower G1 BC of .462, not .510:
0___2233fps 1362 ft-lbs -2.5"
50__2146fps 1257 ft-lbs 1 high
100 2060fps 1159 ft-lbs 3 high
150 1977fps 1068 ft-lbs 2.5 high
200 1896fps 982 ft-lbs ZERO
250 1817fps 902 ft-lbs -5 drop
That exceeds the performance of a 16.3 AK (shooting the same bullet weight at 2350fps) at 100yds, then continues to run away from the AK from thereon out, with 400 more yards of supersonic reach.
The 10.5 Grendel shooting a 123gr at 2233fps has 112 more ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle than a 20 .223 Rem has shooting 55gr at 3200fps, and just walks away from it as well.
For target work, the 107gr SMK will do 2319-2412fps (barrel dependent) on the max load of 8208XBR, which even when compressed, is still at 49,300psi chamber pressure.
That should make a fun little blaster for the kids to shoot steel with.
Using the G7 drag model at 2400fps and the lowest elevation I can shoot in my State, that still puts it supersonic to 1000yds. Enters transonic at 800yds.
6 mils of drop with 1.6 drift at 650yds