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Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Double Naught Spy - 09-04-2020
https://abcnews.go.com/US/bear-dies-attacking-hunter-north-carolina-woods-wildlife/story?id=66740115
Hunters shot a treed bear 3 or 4 times and the bear came down the tree and attacked one of the hunters. The bear broke off the attack after the hunter and bear tumbled down a hillside.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - nawagner - 09-05-2020
The bear is getting tested for rabies. Because yeah after getting shot a few times the bear wasn't just a little pissed off and fighting for its life! And read some of the comments. They are good for a few laughs.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - tdbru - 09-05-2020
shot placement shot placement shot placement. and use enough gun. bears are not something to trifle with. they CAN at times be hazardous to your health. not always, but the possibility exists. you all can do what you wish, of course, but critters with tooth and claw that have historical records of maiming or killing humans need some healthy respect. marginal caliber will get the job done when everything goes right. and truthfully often it does. when it doesn't, one might be wishing for about 3x or 4x the horsepower to finish the dance in your favor.
-tdbru
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - 6.5 Grendel - 09-06-2020
I love bear hunting, I have had a few close calls.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Sinclair - 09-06-2020
tdbru Wrote:shot placement shot placement shot placement. and use enough gun. bears are not something to trifle with. they CAN at times be hazardous to your health. not always, but the possibility exists. you all can do what you wish, of course, but critters with tooth and claw that have historical records of maiming or killing humans need some healthy respect. marginal caliber will get the job done when everything goes right. and truthfully often it does. when it doesn't, one might be wishing for about 3x or 4x the horsepower to finish the dance in your favor..
-tdbru
Once, a long time ago, a sports writer of some renown, who's name I cannot remember, sorry, said that a wise hunter chose his rifle and its caliber based on not what would be the ideal hunting conditions, but upon what the worst case scenario might be. Its a little too late in the game to wish that you had more gun or more bullet when that once in a lifetime trophy is bearing down on you like a run-away freight train. Even a big Buck whitetail can kill you! Just my two cents worth after hunting for 64 years. I love the Grendel, I wouldn't trade my CZ for anything , but it is NOT a monster masher!
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Keef - 09-06-2020
I don't understand wanting to tree a bear and then shoot it. I like hunting bear but do it like deer, find where they go and wait for em to come to you. Grendel is plenty for black bear but like anything hitting the vitals is really all that matters! The people I know that hunt bear with dogs do it for the excitement. I'd say that got theirs that evening....
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Stinky Coyote - 09-06-2020
Hunting methods vary, for many reasons, from type of game to terrain and more, baiting, dogs, spot and stock, ambush. Tools as well, traditional archery, spears, compound bows, crossbows, pistols, rifles, black powder, shotguns. The beauty of this is all the choices in game as well as methods as well as tools. The tricky part is not dividing and conquering from within by developing snobby attitudes about your own choices and opinions as the best and only way for everyone else too. So as hunters, fisherman and outdoorsmen we need to stay mindful of these things. We need to understand we are happy to find choices that suit our desires at the time, while not looking down upon someone elses choices at the time. You never know when you might want to try something new and youll be glad the options were available.
Its common in fishing for fly fisherman to look down on bait fisherman. Its common for bow hunters to look down on crossbow hunters and gun hunters. Common for spot and stalk or ambush hunters to look down on bait or dog hunters. Common for hunters who only kill for food and look down on predator or varmint hunters...despite the overall concept of wildlife management where you should maintain appropriate levels of all wildlife not just the ones we like to eat.
Thats a negative aspect to being an outdoorsman, or human really, as we do this it in all walks/levels of life. Just be aware and support the choices.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Keef - 09-06-2020
I don't have to and won't support dog hunting. I've seen way to many starving/abandoned hunting dogs and tasted the nasty adrenaline/lactic acid filled meat(from the deer not the dog
! If that is snobby to you that's ok, to me it's a moral code. Btw I only fish with worms or crickets, no good with a lure.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Stinky Coyote - 09-07-2020
Ya it does. Its divisive and unhealthy. Classic divide and conquer. You, like many, like to stand above others on some sort of moral high ground. Failing to understand the big picture where you need to have all the facts before you make decisions and not just rely on your personal feelings about a subject. When you do so you acknowledge that youd prefer to do it differently and also fully support all the options we have available to us.
These methods have often come about because without them we can often rarely get numbers down effectively when needed for management, or even sporting uses. Cougars is where we allow dogs as otherwise youd hardly ever get one. Judging something like this is no different than judging what you do. Like I get involved in predator management and pest control...do you? Maybe that should be frowned upon? The holier than thou sentiments from those who only kill to eat and eat what you kill are detrimental views. Fine if you do it, but better support all methods, all brothers. As the slope to losing things you love is a slippery one. So grab an open mind, step off that horse. Driven hunts in Europe? The hounds on the foxes? Maybe its trophy hunting in Africa? Anyway, one must be educated enough to support all these things and never assume your personal view is the final answer. It rarely is as the reasons things are done in other places are well justified.
I often find these elitist views almost bully-ish. So even though Ill never hunt bears behind dogs, Ill stand up for it wherever it may be legal. In my area just cougars can be hunted with dogs. And black bears all we have to legally salvage is the hide. Anyway. Have your view, and do it how you like, but dont slander the other legal methods or the people that choose to do them. Because we are all brothers and sisters in this so have each others back.
You almost careful alluded to these guys got what they deserved. Not cool. You know a hunter was just killed by a bull elk in the USA recently? Bow hunter on a follow up. Did he get what he deserved? Anyway....Ive definitely noticed some of these elitist views on this forum in th past but rest assured any of you Grendel fans that want to get on a high horse about any of our pursuits and I see it...Ill quickly get all over your azz. Never mind that shat. Lets get the word out that the people here wont be putting up with any elitist views on any legal hunting that the variety of ya hunters have access to. Capiche?
We best be supporting all hunting opps in all regions...period.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Keef - 09-07-2020
No thanks. I don't think you've seen the way dogs and dog hunting operates in my area. Ill load up some pictures of the abandoned hunting dogs at the end of this season for you. I won't support something that I think is wrong....period.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Dug Silverman - 09-07-2020
Stinky Coyote Wrote:Hunting methods vary, for many reasons, from type of game to terrain and more, baiting, dogs, spot and stock, ambush. Tools as well, traditional archery, spears, compound bows, crossbows, pistols, rifles, black powder, shotguns. The beauty of this is all the choices in game as well as methods as well as tools. The tricky part is not dividing and conquering from within by developing snobby attitudes about your own choices and opinions as the best and only way for everyone else too. So as hunters, fisherman and outdoorsmen we need to stay mindful of these things. We need to understand we are happy to find choices that suit our desires at the time, while not looking down upon someone elses choices at the time. You never know when you might want to try something new and youll be glad the options were available.
Its common in fishing for fly fisherman to look down on bait fisherman. Its common for bow hunters to look down on crossbow hunters and gun hunters. Common for spot and stalk or ambush hunters to look down on bait or dog hunters. Common for hunters who only kill for food and look down on predator or varmint hunters...despite the overall concept of wildlife management where you should maintain appropriate levels of all wildlife not just the ones we like to eat.
Thats a negative aspect to being an outdoorsman, or human really, as we do this it in all walks/levels of life. Just be aware and support the choices.
We seem to be brothers in the way we see the world. It can be a lonely place.
Disagreement with an entire practice because you dont like the way dogs are treated in your area is akin to taking a sniper shot with a rocket launcher. Saying hunters shouldnt legally hunt with hounds because of a few guys that shouldnt own dogs in the first place is like saying we should outlaw cars because you didnt like the way people treated them at the demolition derby. It makes no sense. There are dogs in cities that are abandoned and mistreated every day. I believe the people committing the crimes should be in prison with the rest of the criminals.
Hunting with dogs is a beautiful thing. Its the culmination of your training coming together in a series of perfect moments. Training of your dogs takes more time than most people would ever be willing to commit to it, physical fitness training for both hunter and dog takes months at the minimum, usually years. Firearms training depends highly on the game pursued. All of these things need to be handled carefully and mindfully, and when it does happen, theres no greater feeling.
Ive never ran bears with hounds (mostly because there arent many bears where I roam) but Ive spent a fair amount of time running mountain lions. If youre sitting at your computer thinking about how easy and unfair it is to run lions with dogs, I dare you to give it a try before judging. You dont have to kill it if you dont want to. The best part of the hunt is taking pictures of an amazing apex predator in the tree right above you. Being in a tree with a mature Tom and spending time with some of your best friends while freezing in the snow is something youll never forget. When you cut a track crossing a road or trail, you turn the dogs loose with no idea if the lion is a hundred yards from you, or ten miles through some of the roughest rockiest snow covered mountains you can imagine, can leave a man with a feeling like most will never experience. You dont know where youll end up, or when, but youre committed because you just sent tens of thousands of dollars worth of dogs with combined years of training. You go until you get them back. No other option. Out here we love our dogs with a passion that can only be compared to the passion they feel for doing their jobs. Once in a while a hound will turn up, skinny and malnourished. This is never a product of neglect in my area. Usually its because that dog somehow got separated from the rest, and couldnt be found. Usually someone I know already knows who the dog belongs to because the owner has spread the word. Ive seen how happy the hound and houndsman are when reunited. Dont ever try to tell me houndsmen as a whole dont love their dogs. We wont be friends.
My only experience with hounds and bears was last spring. I was on a project collaring Mule Deer fawns, and we got a call to assist with a bear nearby. The hounds already had the bear in a tree when we got there. I couldnt believe the houndsmen were still standing when I saw the terrain and heard the story of how far they had been tracking their hounds. Lucky for me, we were able to get in from a road that was much closer than where they had started. We darted the bear, took our measurements, collared him and reversed the sedative. There was nothing mean or unsporting about any of it. It was an amazing experience that Ill remember until the day I die. If people dont agree with these practices, I would encourage you to stop armchair quarterbacking. Get out and meet your local wildlife biologists and see if you can tag along. You may like it, you may not. If you go, be in excellent physical condition and take a camera. You may be surprised about how much your perspective changes. If you still think its unsportsmanlike and unfair to the predators, then Ill respect your opinion. Shooting from the hip with emotional responses doesnt get us anywhere. Informed opinions based of solid research does.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Dug Silverman - 09-07-2020
Please dont jump on the wagon of defending predators without knowing the science of predator and prey management. Its a complex issue with many years of research that still continues every day. Emotional arguments are what got the hunting and shooting world in the trouble we see today. Division in our own ranks only weakens our position even further. If we cant stand together, we will fall together. It wont be all at once. They chip away at our way of life a little at a time wherever theres weakness or division. Its like a rolling snowball, gaining speed magnitude and momentum until its unstoppable. Someday, somebody will have rights you hold dear in their sights. Then youll understand.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - grayfox - 09-07-2020
This thread should probably try to get back onto the OP subject...
That being said, fwiw I am generally against any irresponsible form of sport, whether it's steroids in football, bad dogs-hunting or poaching, or others... but if it's legal and hunters do it responsibly then ok for them -- don't think I'll go there however, that's my 2 cents.
Don't think the guys were thinking much when they tried to down a treed (read, cornered) animal. CNS dead would be the only way to go imo.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Stinky Coyote - 09-07-2020
Keef Wrote:No thanks. I don't think you've seen the way dogs and dog hunting operates in my area. Ill load up some pictures of the abandoned hunting dogs at the end of this season for you. I won't support something that I think is wrong....period.
That's fine and dandy Keef, cancel culture is a thing too.
I'll be standing up for all legal hunting practices and people, shooting sports, etc. Even though i'll never do 98% of the variety of options possible, awful glad i have the choices i do. I am quick to get on any 'sportsmans' back when they want to ride a taller horse than someone else though. Deflect all you like.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Keef - 09-07-2020
Ok, Stinky Coyote we will just have to disagree on this one. You are ok with people starving dogs and abandoning dogs and I am not.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Dug Silverman - 09-08-2020
Mic drop. Boom. :confused:
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - rickt300 - 09-08-2020
Keef Wrote:Ok, Stinky Coyote we will just have to disagree on this one. You are ok with people starving dogs and abandoning dogs and I am not.
So you paint all dog hunters with the same brush? Are you a democrat?
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Dug Silverman - 09-08-2020
Keef Wrote:Ok, Stinky Coyote we will just have to disagree on this one. You are ok with people starving dogs and abandoning dogs and I am not.
Just so Im perfectly clear. And Im honestly curious. Are you talking about ALL hunters that use dogs? Are you talking about upland game hunters enlisting the help of a pointer? How about waterfowl hunters with a lab or a Chesapeake? The reason this piqued my curiosity is that in my world, good hunting dogs are expensive and Ive honestly never known a hunter to neglect his dog. My Pudelpointer would never complain about eating all the leftovers I can sneak him, or sleeping in a heated and air conditioned house. And boy you ought to see him get excited when the over-under comes out. Or a bag of decoys.
Why stop there if were against using dogs for their well bred intended purpose? Should all stock dogs be kept as house pets? If you want to see dogs that are unhappy, and mentally unstable, get a border collie and never let him work. Get a well bred high drive hunting dog, and never take him hunting. If you really want to truly despise your dog, get a hunting hound and never let him track and tree animals. They will be miserable.
In my opinion were talking about two different things here. Were talking about hunting. You are talking about criminal abandonment of animals. Just so were clear. I agree with you. People who mistreat their dogs are the lowest kind of trash. They deserve jail or prison. Those kind of people should never be allowed to carry a firearm to hunt with their dogs in the first place.
Ethical hunters take care of their dogs. This was never part of the conversation. A hard working dog will however, end the season leaner than he started. As will a pack horse, or cow horse. As do I, and most other hunters I know. Very different subject.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Stinky Coyote - 09-08-2020
Dug Silverman Wrote:Please dont jump on the wagon of defending predators without knowing the science of predator and prey management. Its a complex issue with many years of research that still continues every day. Emotional arguments are what got the hunting and shooting world in the trouble we see today. Division in our own ranks only weakens our position even further. If we cant stand together, we will fall together. It wont be all at once. They chip away at our way of life a little at a time wherever theres weakness or division. Its like a rolling snowball, gaining speed magnitude and momentum until its unstoppable. Someday, somebody will have rights you hold dear in their sights. Then youll understand.
So well said. Worth seeing this repeated if not sticky at the top of all hunting forums.
Shooting Bear FAILURE- Prompts Attack, Hunter Injured - Stinky Coyote - 09-08-2020
We must be brothers from other mothers Dug.
Keef, your hand is in the cookie jar. Ill second what Dug just said. I picked up a cougar dog while coyote hunting and it was cold, took a few driveways but I found her home. She was the main bitch I guess and just always trying to get out and go and she did. But she was good about hitting the road after her run and approaching my truck as I came down the road. Was like -25c that day. Anyway, if somebody is abusive in your area Im sure it could only be one outfit as anyone Ive ever known about dogs they are family and they do whatever it takes to retrieve and care for them. So I would suggest that you are talking about two different things. If you ever want a big cougar one day, Ill bet plenty the only way youll do it is from behind dogs. Stand up for it. Slam a cruel and unlawful outfit, but not the entire industry because of a bad apple.