DVDVC Wrote:Thank you for the reply, but I'm still not sure what is a reasonable expectation on accuracy potential and how much I need to invest to get it. Do I need to invest in a billet receiver and a top shelf barrel to get decent accuracy, or can it be done with a mid range ($300-400) barrel and a good forged receiver, or will a $200 barrel get it done. What do I need to shoot sub-MOA? I know you can't judge how good of a marksman I may or may not be, or my technical ability to properly assemble an AR, or my ability to develop a proper handload, so let's assume I can shoot, reload and assemble an AR without buggering up the job. Is it reasonable to assume that I should be able to assemble an sub-MOA upper and how deep do I need to go to achieve it?

DVDVC Wrote:Thank you for the reply, but I'm still not sure what is a reasonable expectation on accuracy potential and how much I need to invest to get it. Do I need to invest in a billet receiver and a top shelf barrel to get decent accuracy, or can it be done with a mid range ($300-400) barrel and a good forged receiver, or will a $200 barrel get it done. What do I need to shoot sub-MOA? I know you can't judge how good of a marksman I may or may not be, or my technical ability to properly assemble an AR, or my ability to develop a proper handload, so let's assume I can shoot, reload and assemble an AR without buggering up the job. Is it reasonable to assume that I should be able to assemble an sub-MOA upper and how deep do I need to go to achieve it?

A5BLASTER Wrote:Ok so you want sub-moa. And you want to hunt with it and play on target say too 600 yards and you want to hold sub-moa to 600 yards.

Spend 500 or more on a custom barrel useing no lower in quiality then criterion and be better to go with bartlein, Krieger or lithia. Top it off with a great scope and great scope mount and a great ar target trigger.

With a well put together and torque balanced rifle that's properly gassed and some good load work up it will give you all the accuracy you could ever want.

Barrel length is up to your specific needs but a 20 to 16 inch will cover out to 600 easily. If you want the most speed you can get go for the 24 inch. If you go with the 24 inch get a nice bullet heavy wall upper to match the long thick heavy profile of the barrel and resist flex during the firing cycle. Lapp the upper and bed the barrel and the rest is on your skills.

Mark at Precision firearms is who I would have do my barrel.

Klem Wrote:DV,

The Grendel is no more or less potentially accurate at 100M than any other AR calibre. At 600 it's different; wind comes into play and that's where speed and BC influences the outcome, with the shooter's ability to judge and compensate lessening that effect on group size.

If you have a Savage bolt gun then there's another point of difference. Bolt guns will easily outgun AR's for group size, in all calibres. Justifying the loss of accuracy potential is semi-auto firepower and so you have to somehow compare that need/want against the loss of accuracy and decide which is more important.

Grendel was designed to be used in an AR so it makes sense that you don't try and match other calibres that are more suited for other receivers. By that I mean if you want more velocity and start looking for longer barrel then you may as well get an AR10 in a heavier 6.5calibre with a reasonable length barrel than an AR15 Grendel with an overly long, heavy barrel out the front of a light-weight, flexible receiver.

I suggest the following average group size for 4rds out of an AR @ 100;
0.7-0.8MOA for a top-tier barrel (Bartlein, Lilja, Kreiger). Best gun and conditions.
0.9MOA for Tier 2 barrels (e.g. Shilen).
1+MOA for other barrels. It's a lottery and you may get lucky, but more likely not.

This assumes a decent repeatable scope and match trigger.

Lilja and Krieger drop-in's are only $500. Compared to the cost of the rest of the gun including scope the difference between an average and best shooter is nothing - $200. That's the cost of ammunition spent in the first few shooting sessions of frustration.

DVDVC Wrote:I had to tinker quite a bit to get my Savage 110 .308 to shoot 0.3 MOA.

DVDVC Wrote:Klem, thanks for the input. I realize that an AR won't shoot like a bolt gun. I mentioned it only in reply to Grayfox's question of a new gun shooting sub-MOA out of the box. Your reasoning on the cost difference of a top tier barrel makes a lot of sense, but I'd have trouble springing for a $700 Bartlien. Do you have an opinion on the Wilson Super Sniper? Would you consider it a Tier 2 barrel or somewhere in between Top Tier and Tier 2?

DVDVC Wrote:A5, do you have an opinion on the Wilson Super Sniper 22in. barrel. Looks like a great buy at $304. I don't think I can justify a $700+ Bartlien, but who knows?

peak98 Wrote:If you can consistently shoot in the 0.3’s, I’d say your ahead of the curve in marksmanship fundamentals. You will probably get just what you pay for barrel wise. If you want every bit of accuracy possible, cough up the Franklins for a Precision Firearms Bartlein barreled upper. If you are okay shooting 1-1.5” groups on average, you can save yourself several hundred and still have a respectable shooter. I might have missed this info, do you reload or are you gonna shoot factory ammo?

peak98