+- 6.5 Grendel Forum (https://65grendel.com)
+-- Forum: 6.5 GRENDEL DISCUSSION FORUMS (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: 6.5 Grendel Ammunition & Reloading (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Full length resizing help (/showthread.php?tid=21587)
Pages:
1
2
Full length resizing help - Briano23 - 07-08-2020
I'm getting ready to reloading 6.5 Grendel I have been reloading 308 for sometime and my process till now was full length size trim clean then load.
What I have been reading is to full length resizing without the mandrel the use and expander mandrel die for more consistent neck tension.
When I full length with the mandrel in my die for 308 OD of my neck is 0.335" when resize without the mandrel my neck is 0.327" .
I like to refine this new process of resizing, then expand in two steps instead of one.
But my dilemma is the resing process with the mandrel removed is sizing the neck more then I want. What am I doing wrong.
Thanks
Briano
Full length resizing help - A5BLASTER - 07-08-2020
Removing the sizing button is what your doing wrong.
If this is for a ar grendel and your going to full length resize you should not remove the sizing button from the die.
A bushing neck die used for bolt action reloads sure you can remove the sizing button and then adjust your neck sizing vie the bushing.
Full length resizing help - tdbru - 07-08-2020
What A5B said. To not use the mandrel you need to go to a bushing style reloading die.
Another factor affecting neck tension is the hardness of the brass in the case neck, and how much undersize the I.D. of the neck is relative to the bullet diameter.
For consistent neck tension, you're also going to have to consider neck annealing to make sure that all the brass you run has the same state of hardness in the necks. And then there's neck turning to make sure all the necks are of a uniform thickness.
The F-Classers i know chase uniform neck tension. And a host of other minutia in search of that last x for score.
if you Pareto all the factors in rifle accuracy, though, good bullets and good barrels are up near the top. things like uniform neck tension do count, but the effect is not nearly as dramatic as the difference between a so-so barrel and a "hummer".
so like A5B recommended, put the mandrel back in the die and just use it.
if you want to chase the ultimate accuracy, make sure you, your barrel, your bullet are up to the requirements, as well as many other details. it's all fun. but time consuming. Neck annealing will be a required tool to help you get to more consistent neck tension, as well as other things. If you are after these incremental improvements, I'm sure you're using Lapua brass already, right? weigh powder t o the kernel, run custom match bullets in Krieger, Bartlien, or other premium barrels, etc.
the whole purpose of uniform neck tension is to aid in getting as small an extreme spread in muzzle velocity as possible. This shows up as vertical dispersion, but is only point worthy when going very long. like Palma or something. Besides neck tension, there are a host of other ammo variables that need attention to reduce extreme spread in muzzle velocities.
Have fun with producing great target ammo, it's all good learning. But if the rifle & shooter are not up to snuff, you may not see any difference in your group size between an ES of 10fps vs 100fps.
I fall into that later camp, unfortunately. I am the weak link in accuracy for me. My gear is better than I am. I still strive to produce good ammo, but when I lose points, it's all me.
-tdbru
Full length resizing help - Klem - 07-08-2020
I agree with the guys.
By all means take care with your reloading but taking your hand-loading from 98% to 100% is not going to be realized every time you pull the trigger. In fact, may never be realized at all. The ability of an AR to reveal the difference is questionable.
I see you clean your cases after running through your dies. Clean cases are a sloppy fit in a chamber compared with how tight they are in a die. Cleaning cases does more to protect the die than anything else, except of course look good. I would clean before you do anything else.
Full length resizing help - Briano23 - 07-08-2020
The first thing in my reload processes is decap then tumble then aneal, resize, clean primer pockets, trim to length, tumble again, Prime, charge and seat.
But besides playing with OAL I wanted to try different neck tensions.
So what I have been reading was people resize then use and expander mandrel for the neck size for for more consistent neck tension.
So what I'm reading here is with s type full length die I can use a bushing to better control neck tension.
Again this is all in fun in the reloading process but defiantly a learing process.
This Is my budget 308 I build and its fun to shoot.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16416[/ATTACH]
Full length resizing help - Klem - 07-08-2020
Brian,
Is this for a 6.5 bolt gun?
Full length resizing help - Briano23 - 07-08-2020
Yes , I'm using my information of my 308 as and example.
Full length resizing help - ricsmall - 07-08-2020
For a bolt gun I really like the Forster FL bump with neck bushings. Ive noticed more runout in recent years with neck expanders than in my past years of reloading. Seems every set of Redding dies I buy, the expander ball has to go in my lathe for removing machine marks and size reduction. Had one particular set of dies causing .007 runout. Case would have .0005 after firing, then .007 after sizing. Talk about a headache!!
Full length resizing help - Briano23 - 07-08-2020
Thanks I'll look at the Forster FL Die.
Full length resizing help - kmon - 07-08-2020
For bolt actions I size the case so the shoulder is pushed back .002 inches. Not much but it is very reliable.
Full length resizing help - Briano23 - 07-08-2020
I can not find the Forster FL bump with neck bushings.just there FL die pt# 005346.
Full length resizing help - Briano23 - 07-08-2020
Thanks I like a .002-.003" bump myself.
Full length resizing help - Briano23 - 07-08-2020
I just found out from Forster 6.5 grendel dies are 12 weeks out any suggestion on fl die till I can get a Forster fl die
Full length resizing help - tdbru - 07-08-2020
https://www.amazon.com/Type-Full-Bushing-Die-GRENDEL/dp/B00110ESOC
Full length resizing help - FLshooter - 07-08-2020
I have a full length Forster 6.5 Grendel Sizing die and a Forster micrometer die.I had to wait several weeks to get them.I lucked into a Like new used Redding National match 6.5 Grendel die set at a local shop for $99. I like the Forrester better, probably because I have a CoAx press. But the Reading is a great set too.
Full length resizing help - Happy2Shoot - 07-08-2020
Briano23 Wrote:But my dilemma is the resing process with the mandrel removed is sizing the neck more then I want. What am I doing wrong.
Thanks
Briano
Incorrect statement. Your die sizes your necks the same, with or with out the mandrel. Size-dies squeeze necks down a lot. Die makers don't know how thin or thick you brass necks are. Then the button is dragged back out of the case, expanding the neck 0.003" or so under bullet diameter. I use a M-die on my press during the loading process and skip the button in the resizing operation. What is your OD with a bullet seated?
Full length resizing help - Klem - 07-09-2020
Happy2Shoot Wrote:Incorrect statement. Your die sizes your necks the same, with or with out the mandrel. Size-dies squeeze necks down a lot. Die makers don't know how thin or thick you brass necks are. Then the button is dragged back out of the case, expanding the neck 0.003" or so under bullet diameter. I use a M-die on my press during the loading process and skip the button in the resizing operation. What is your OD with a bullet seated?
Happy,
I don't think this is an issue of correct or not, you both seem to understand what is happening.
The crush without the stem is different depending on the manufacturer, and this imparts different neck tensions also depending on how thick your brass is at the neck .
These are my measurements based on Lapua brass which loads to an OD of .2900"
Forster
With expander, neck OD .2865. Neck tension is .0035"
Without expander, neck OD .2860. Neck tension is .004"
Redding
With expander, neck OD .2895. Neck tension is .0005" (too light for an auto loader)
Without expander, neck OD .2800. Neck tension is .01" (too severe to be usable)
The Redding works the neck more than the Forster.
For AR's we need neck tension so .004" is the Forster without the expander.
For bolt guns I would prefer the Redding with the expander, .0005", although the Forster with expander would work too.
I understand Lee works necks even more than these two.
Brian, what die to you currently have?
Full length resizing help - Briano23 - 07-09-2020
Right now I'm looking for a 6.5 Grendel Full Lenght die I have the FORSTER ULTRA MICROMETER SEATER DIE FOR 6.5 GRENDEL, but I have on order the Forster FL die for 6.5 but this die is 12 weeks out before delivery. so I 'm contemplating purchase purchase a second FL die but not sure which one for the 6.5 grendel.
My 308 Dies are Redding National Match die set I also use a Lee Collet neck die for this as well.
Full length resizing help - Klem - 07-09-2020
Briano23 Wrote:Right now I'm looking for a 6.5 Grendel Full Length die I have the FORSTER ULTRA MICROMETER SEATER DIE FOR 6.5 GRENDEL, but I have on order the Forster FL die for 6.5 but this die is 12 weeks out before delivery. so I 'm contemplating purchase purchase a second FL die but not sure which one for the 6.5 grendel.
My 308 Dies are Redding National Match die set I also use a Lee Collet neck die for this as well.
Brian,
I like those Collet dies also. It's the only Lee die I will recommend, for bolt guns only of course. I ran the .223 Collet's stem in a drill press with sand paper for a little more neck tension so that's always an option. You have to slim the whole stem, not just the area where the collet jaws clamp the neck, to be able to get the case off after sizing.
You have my measurements above but there's no guarantee buying the same again will be the exactly the same dimensions (although I imagine they will be close). The other guys know their dies too so I'm sure we can narrow it down.
Full length resizing help - Briano23 - 07-09-2020
Klem, thanks can you suggest fl die till my forster comes in.