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PSA multi cal lower - Printable Version

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PSA multi cal lower - FLshooter - 06-04-2020

I am wanting to build an AR 15 pistol.I have uppers and lowers that been sitting here not getting used,and I’m thinking about using a PSA multi cal lower. It didn’t come as a complete rifle. But it did come from PSA with a rifle stock and rifle buffer tube.
My question is does anyone know how PSA classifies their complete multi cal lowers? Is it classified as “other”,or “Rifle”? I tried calling PSA, but because of the COVID-19 I cannot get through to anyone and they won’t answer my emails.
I know that if you buy a complete A.R. 15 rifle, you can never use that lower for a pistol build.But since the slower was a multi caliber lower, I’m thinking that I may be able to change it into a pistol without ever having to worry about ATF.
I won’t do this, unless I am 100% sure. Because I’m going to use this for suppressed hunting.And with my luck, I’ll get pulled over and searched .I don’t wanna lose my contractor license by getting a felony charge.

PSA multi cal lower - Lastrites - 06-04-2020

If it was shipped as you mentioned it would have been done as an "other", completely legal to reconfigure into a pistol. If you ever visit ar15.com they have industry forum and PSA is a member and will respond fairly quickly. eta: it's not a rifle until a fully assembled upper is installed and I am sure by your description that you never installed an upper on it.

Funny I just realized that tomorrow was the day I ordered the parts for my first ar pistol 15 years ago, seems like a lifetime ago.

PSA multi cal lower - FLshooter - 06-04-2020

Lastrites Wrote:If it was shipped as you mentioned it would have been done as an "other", completely legal to reconfigure into a pistol. If you ever visit ar15.com they have industry forum and PSA is a member and will respond fairly quickly. eta: it's not a rifle until a fully assembled upper is installed and I am sure by your description that you never installed an upper on it.
I had a rifle upper on it for years.But I live in Florida where we don’t register Firearms, so no one knows what kind of upper I put on it.And it is legal to change them back and forth if the lower was sold as “other“.
I finally got a hold of someone at the Greenville PSA store. She could Not answer my question . But she promised she would get an answer by 7 PM tonight and Email me soon.

PSA multi cal lower - Lastrites - 06-04-2020

Do as you will, but it's a rifle now.

PSA multi cal lower - A5BLASTER - 06-04-2020

FLshooter Wrote:I had a rifle upper on it for years.But I live in Florida where we don’t register Firearms, so no one knows what kind of upper I put on it.And it is legal to change them back and forth if the lower was sold as “other“.
I finally got a hold of someone at the Greenville PSA store. She could Not answer my question . But she promised she would get an answer by 7 PM tonight and Email me soon.

Well the whole world can see its a rifle lower now, since you posted it here.

Legal once you put a rifle stock on it, it's always a rifle.

If it had come with a brace, then you would be good.

If it was a stripped lower you could build it into a pistol.

I mean you still could but the feds if need be could back track to this thread and see that you did technicly break the law.

PSA multi cal lower - FLshooter - 06-05-2020

A5BLASTER Wrote:Well the whole world can see its a rifle lower now, since you posted it here.

Legal once you put a rifle stock on it, it's always a rifle.

If it had come with a brace, then you would be good.

If it was a stripped lower you could build it into a pistol.

I mean you still could but the feds if need be could back track to this thread and see that you did technicly break the law.
PSA sent me an email.They said that any lower you buy from them, even if it was sold as a rifle ,is classified as other.So you can switch them back-and-forth to pistol.
They went out to say that the only time ATF can mess with you is if the lower was classified as a rifle.
ATF won’t look online.They will check the serial number.

PSA multi cal lower - A5BLASTER - 06-05-2020

FLshooter Wrote:PSA sent me an email.They said that any lower you buy from them, even if it was sold as a rifle ,is classified as other.So you can switch them back-and-forth to pistol.
They went out to say that the only time ATF can mess with you is if the lower was classified as a rifle.
ATF won’t look online.They will check the serial number.

Lol. Good luck sir.

Once a rifle always a rifle.

PSA multi cal lower - Lastrites - 06-05-2020

A5 I tried to lead him the proper way but he didn't take the hook and then TMI was passed. Guess the best thing at this point is to just purge the posts but we all know once it's been typed "they" have their ways to recreate.

Just a thought, hey FL when you received that lower did you happen to remove the stock when first cleaning it up and checking out and by chance you placed a <16" upper on it thus making it a pistol originally? All my builds begin as pistols then I go from there.

PSA multi cal lower - MaineAR - 06-07-2020

It has nothing to do with how PSA classifies their lowers when they ship to you. It has EVERYTHING to do with how your FFL filled out the 4473 and reported what you bought to the ATF. If your FFL isn’t savvy, they may have checked that it was a rifle in box #27 if it had a stock when you bought it. But, if they said “receiver” or “other”, you are fine as there is no firm description of the firearm. If you did have it checked as a rifle on the 4473, then you putting the pistol upper on it and swapping to a brace is a no-no. You can’t go from a rifle to a pistol.

PSA multi cal lower - FLshooter - 06-07-2020

MaineAR Wrote:It has nothing to do with how PSA classifies their lowers when they ship to you. It has EVERYTHING to do with how your FFL filled out the 4473 and reported what you bought to the ATF. If your FFL isn’t savvy, they may have checked that it was a rifle in box #27 if it had a stock when you bought it. But, if they said “receiver” or “other”, you are fine as there is no firm description of the firearm. If you did have it checked as a rifle on the 4473, then you putting the pistol upper on it and swapping to a brace is a no-no. You can’t go from a rifle to a pistol.
Exactly, that’s what PSA told me to do. I called up my FFL.He transfers all lowers as “other“.

PSA multi cal lower - Bigs28 - 06-07-2020

It may have been transferred as other, but if it was "first" assembled as a rifle (stock), then it is a rifle always.

PSA multi cal lower - Kswhitetails - 06-07-2020

Question: If a lower is transferred to you as an "other" then what does the ATF care what it is at any time? It is always an "other" lower in whatever configuration they find it. They care a lot when a lower registered as a "rifle" when first transferred to the original owner is found in short configuration. Caviat: Do not put a rifle stock on a lower with a shorter than 16" OAL barrel, without paying the stamp and waiting on the approval. You may put a rifle length barreled upper on a pistol braced lower at any time without repercussion.

The ATF has no clue how you build your "other" lower - at any time you own it, unless you provide pictures and words in print to the contrary.

The only lower you may build to a shorter than rifle length pistol is one that was originally transferred to you as an "other". I don't know if there is an option to register a lower as a "pistol", I don't believe there is.

Rule: If a lower was originally transferred and registered as a "rifle" then it is always a rifle lower, period. If a lower was originally transferred as a "other" lower, then it can me bade (built) into any configuration the owner so desires, providing they can prove they are following the rules and standards they change at their whim.

Do not build a lower you buy privately as a pistol. Ever. Period. Buy a stripped lower or pistol built lower new at/from a licensed FFL, have it transferred to you as a new receiver as the original "owner", then carry on in any form you wish.

SBR = the dangerous step child. If you're going to put a rifle/carbine stock on the lower, and have a shorter than 16 OAL barrel, pay the stamp and wait.

PSA multi cal lower - FLshooter - 06-07-2020

Kswhitetails Wrote:Question: If a lower is transferred to you as an "other" then what does the ATF care what it is at any time? It is always an "other" lower in whatever configuration they find it. They care a lot when a lower registered as a "rifle" when first transferred to the original owner is found in short configuration.

The ATF has no clue how you build your "other" lower - at any time you own it, unless you provide pictures and words in print to the contrary.

The only lower you may build to a shorter than rifle length pistol is one that was originally transferred to you as an "other". I don't know if there is an option to register a lower as a "pistol", I don't believe there is.

Rule: If a lower was originally transferred and registered as a "rifle" then it is always a rifle lower, period. If a lower was originally transferred as a "other" lower, then it can me bade (built) into any configuration the owner so desires, providing they can prove they are following the rules and standards they change at their whim.

Do not build a lower you buy privately as a pistol. Ever. Period. Buy a stripped lower or pistol built lower, have it transferred to you as a new receiver as the original "owner", then carry on in any form you wish.
Here in Florida we aren’t required to register Firearms.“Other“ means I Purchased it as a new lower. My FFL told me that ATF has no clue on what I did my receiver. So I can switch it back-and-forth as many times as I’d like.
I asked this question, just to get opinions.But I have other AR builds that started with a stripped Anderson or Aero lower.And I also have 80% lower builds.I just wanted to use one of these PSA lowers because I had already stripped them and it was more convenient. But if need be I could have used the other options.

PSA multi cal lower - A5BLASTER - 06-07-2020

FLshooter Wrote:Here in Florida we aren’t required to register Firearms.“Other“ means I Purchased it as a new lower. My FFL told me that ATF has no clue on what I did my receiver. So I can switch it back-and-forth as many times as I’d like.
I asked this question, just to get opinions.But I have other AR builds that started with a stripped Anderson or Aero lower.And I also have 80% lower builds.I just wanted to use one of these PSA lowers because I had already stripped them and it was more convenient. But if need be I could have used the other options.

Your better off useing on of your stripped lowers that's never had any buffer tube and stock on it.

Regardless of what psa are your ffl has told you. If something happens and the atf gets involved, they have all the proff written right here in this thread to burn you.

It's not worth the risk my freind, just use a lower that's never had a buffer tube installed on it before and then you will never have to have that idea in your head should something happen.

PSA multi cal lower - Lastrites - 06-07-2020

While your intentions are good and you haven't yet turned your rifle into a pistol which isn't allowed since you originally made it into a rifle to start, lowers are cheap and you should just start anew.

PSA multi cal lower - Kswhitetails - 06-07-2020

The term "register" has some different uses. I consider a "transfer" as a registration, simply because law requires your FFL to register you as the buyer of that serial number, and keep a record - to be produced at any time the ATF decides they want it, for a period of time from purchase.

After that period of time, I'm not sure what the real term for this is, because those records are "supposed" to be destroyed... I can assure you if they want them, they can get them.

That said, if you have any NFA item, such as an SBR, Suppressor, or automatic etc..., then your state's laws are irrelevant and your firearm is permanently registered to you under the NFA until you decide to "transfer" it to another party. Herein lies the ambiguity in the term "registered"...

Your FFL is technically correct. But so is A5 above. Best to do it by the T. Don't think that the ATF won't be interested in you - should they think they have a reason to be - ever.

That being said, since you posted no serial number, which lower are you talking about? (RHETORICAL)

PSA multi cal lower - Bigs28 - 06-07-2020

Just because your ffl says the atf won't know doesn't mean it's legal.

PSA multi cal lower - FLshooter - 06-08-2020

Kswhitetails Wrote:The term "register" has some different uses. I consider a "transfer" as a registration, simply because law requires your FFL to register you as the buyer of that serial number, and keep a record - to be produced at any time the ATF decides they want it, for a period of time from purchase.

After that period of time, I'm not sure what the real term for this is, because those records are "supposed" to be destroyed... I can assure you if they want them, they can get them.

That said, if you have any NFA item, such as an SBR, Suppressor, or automatic etc..., then your state's laws are irrelevant and your firearm is permanently registered to you under the NFA until you decide to "transfer" it to another party. Herein lies the ambiguity in the term "registered"...

Your FFL is technically correct. But so is A5 above. Best to do it by the T. Don't think that the ATF won't be interested in you - should they think they have a reason to be - ever.

That being said, since you posted no serial number, which lower are you talking about? (RHETORICAL)
True.
But it’s alway’s best to not give the government a chance to get in your business.I don’t do social media and I’ve always kept a low profile. I have builds with new “lower“ receivers I got from my LGS.All I Gotta do is swap out the parts.

PSA multi cal lower - FLshooter - 06-08-2020

I realized this morning that I should’ve called ATF to get the facts,instead of everyone’s opinion .So,I called them this morning. I asked the agent if I could use a lower I had hanging around for a pistol build. He said, “let me check it for you“.So I gave him the serial number and it came is listed as “other”.So his answer was, “you can use it for pistol or rifle”.
He went on to tell me that the lower is whatever the builder classifies it to be.Anything else doesn’t matter.
So if anyone has the same question I asked. All you have to do is look up the serial number of your lower and you will find out if it is a rifle,pistol or other.. End of story.

PSA multi cal lower - Bigs28 - 06-09-2020

Your failing to understand what is being said. If you buy a striped lower it's marked as "other". Everyone agrees. You can use lower to build either a rifle or a pistol. Everyone agrees. Where you are getting lost is that if you built a rifle with that lower originally then that lower is always a rifle and cannot be made into a pistol. If you made it into a pistol originally then your good. Here is the atfs definition of a pistol and on their publication they put the word "originally" in bold for a reason.

the term “pistol” is defined by the Act’s implementing regulations, 27
CFR 479.11, as “a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile
(bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an
integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed
to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)”