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+--- Thread: Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? (/showthread.php?tid=21070)
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - FlashHercules - 04-20-2020
Okay, so I have parts on the way for a 13" 6.5 Grendel build, but now I need an optic. I have a budget of about $500, and I'm thinking a LPVO of some sort, but I'm open to any and all suggestions. It will be primarily used for target shooting, but I may end up hunting with it at some point.
My main hurdle has been finding an LPVO with a reticle good for the 6.5 Grendel cartridge in that price range, as most of the popular options are BDC reticles tuned for 5.56/.308/7.62x39.
My short list currently is the Swampfox Arrowhead 1-8 MOA, the Primary Arms 1-8x with ACSS Raptor reticle, and the Blackhound 1-8x Genesis MOA. Am I missing any options worth looking into? I certainly wouldn't mind buying used, but haven't found much in that price range on Ebay.
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - Kswhitetails - 04-20-2020
LPVO for target is kinda shooting yourself in the foot. It's fun for a while, but groups aren't as fun, nor the available range. As you've noticed the lack of good reticles in them for target is apparent, but I would submit that's because it's not what they're meant for.
Try the 3-12 window. There are LOTS of available optics in that envelope that would be famtastic glass and reticle at that price point. LRTS from Bushnell ET, Elite 4200s from Bushnell, Leupold 3-9 VX-R with the TMR Firedot is nice for this. There are lots of others, Athon Midas Tacs, Burris XTR-IIs. You shouldn't think of your shorty Grendel as a typical short barreled AR - it's more than capable of grouping at 4-600, with the right glass and skills. Much better than you would think, and much better than an 8x is going to help you with.
IMO none of the ACSS reticles are much for target at all. Great for steel, and tactical, not so much for grouping or paper. Shooting groups at 400 is where you'll start to see real challenge with your Grendel, and 400 at 8x is a pretty severe handicap for that, IMO. Add that to an ACSS reticle or the like and you're going to be hamstrung pretty severely.
Of course this is all moot if you're only able to get to 100 where you shoot so....
Good luck, this is a real journey. And process.
One piece of advice, buy all the glass you can afford, up front. Even if you have to wait to save up. And keep an eye out, eventually you'll find a deal.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - FlashHercules - 04-20-2020
Thanks for the insight!
The max distance I can shoot locally is 500 yards, but honestly I'd be happy to ring steel at that distance. Perhaps I'm underestimating the potential of this round with factory ammo out of a 13" bbl? It was sourced from Sanders Armory, so it's certainly not high end, but a step up from PSA or BCA for sure.
I honestly wasn't even considering a higher magnification optic, but now I'm looking at other options. I definitely intend to pick up the best glass my budget allows, but with a baby on the way, that budget is pretty firm. The Primary Arms 4-14x44 R-Grid 2b scope has good reviews and ticks all the boxes, any thoughts on that?
Thanks again for your help!
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - FRB6.5 - 04-20-2020
I've hit steel at 833 yards with a 12.5" BA barreled pistol with Hornady American Gunner. Provided your barrel/ammo combo is accurate, 500 yards is easy even with the short guns.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - BluntForceTrauma - 04-21-2020
Kswhitetails Wrote:LPVO for target is kinda shooting yourself in the foot. It's fun for a while, but groups aren't as fun, nor the available range. As you've noticed the lack of good reticles in them for target is apparent, but I would submit that's because it's not what they're meant for.
Good advice above. I've got the Primary Arms 1-6x24 ACSS and it's definitely a "tactical" scope for ringing steel as opposed to a benchrest scope.
Think about your main use and get an optic geared to it.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - A5BLASTER - 04-21-2020
If you can find one on sale the vortex pst gen 2 1-6 is going to be the best for hunting and target playing on steel.
I have 2 of them, one on a 12.5 and one as a swap out optic for my 12 inch both grendels. I have taken both of them too 600 on steel plates.
Only draw back is the weight, helps while at the bench but sucks while out hunting.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - Hickory Nut - 04-22-2020
I tried the Swampfox 1-8 Tomahawk with spear duplex. The glass is clear and feels solid. The dot is a bit big for my liking to shoot groups with. It tracks well the turrets work. There are other options for a more expensive version but that one didn't have the Spear Plex that I thought I would like. To shoot my groups at 100 yards I actually used the top of the cross hair below the dot and for 300 I used the actual Dot and dialed it up to 3. It was dead nuts on!
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - 65GbySeven - 04-22-2020
Atibal XP8 has a nice reticle. I'm very pleased with the price, quality, clarity, and durability. Dropped my upper 3 feet off my bench. Test fire was an inch low and right, couple clicks and back on the bullseye next three groups. NO BS Warranty wasn't needed.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - Kswhitetails - 04-22-2020
65GbySeven Wrote:Atibal XP8 has a nice reticle. I'm very pleased with the price, quality, clarity, and durability. Dropped my upper 3 feet off my bench. Test fire was an inch low and right, couple clicks and back on the bullseye next three groups. NO BS Warranty wasn't needed.
Was your zero shifted, or was there some other legitimate reason for the shift - alternate ammo, different recipe, rifle swap, etc...?
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - 65GbySeven - 04-22-2020
Kswhitetails Wrote:Was your zero shifted, or was there some other legitimate reason for the shift - alternate ammo, different recipe, rifle swap, etc...?
Zero was shifted from the fall, but based on the severity of the drop, I was impressed that it was only an inch off at 100 Yards. I used my hunting load to test which is what my scope is was zero'd on before the fall.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - LRRPF52 - 04-23-2020
Biggest problem with most LPVOs is that they don't have parallax adjustment for TGT shooting.
They are a compromise geared towards being well-rounded for close work, and intermediate range shooting with trade-offs that good TGT scopes don't suffer.
I'm not sure what direction to go on a $500 budget if you want a scope that won't break on a gas gun.
There are precious few scopes with quality glass and appropriate features that will hold up on an AR15, which beats them harder than magnum bolt guns due to the reciprocating mass of the BCG slamming back into the breach and barrel extension with a cascading high G impulse that 99% of scopes were never designed to handle.
NightForce NX series and Vortex PST and Razo HD are some of the only ones that are built specifically to deal with that kind of abuse.
Leupold Mark 6 and Mark 5 also, but we're way outside of $500 at those higher end Leupold.
There have been a lot of warranty-related returns on the PA lower end scopes for this reason when you actually shoot a bit.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - Kswhitetails - 04-23-2020
The PST 1-6 or 1-4 are nice. They're true 1X and daylight bright, and should be close to your budget. The gen 1 1-4 in mils is on my "to find" list, at $300 bucks. I'll have another, but I wouldn't dream about calling it a target optic. It is fun on steel though.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - Glockpride - 04-24-2020
As mentioned Vortex Viper PST or Primary Arms ACSS are really two you should strongly consider if holding tightly to your budget.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - Clausewitz - 04-24-2020
I really wouldn't worry about the hash marks not matching up to your drops. We're talking a couple inches, as in 3, at 600. Wind & shooter skill will be far bigger factors.
I've got the PA ASCC 1-6 on my 12.5in build. I'm happy with it for what it is. It's a hunting/tactical/competition scope. It's not what I'd use if I wanted to cover my groups with a quarter at 400. But I'm not freakin Jesus with a rifle like LRRPF52 so I'm breaking out the 18in barrel with 6x24 Vortex if I want to do anything other than bang steel or a deer/hog inside of 500.
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@FlashHercules - just to clarify the data in the above image is rough, something that I did on the fly. However, I ball parked by knocking some FPS off the max loadings to correct for A) super long barrels used in published numbers & B) max published load is rarely what people use in reality. I've corrected for probable FPS for your 12.5 in build in that ball park.
You could with a long barrel & proper reloading for a specific rifle easily beat 6.5G with 308. However, that's not what the LPVO is set up to show. It's set up to show a handier rifle for sports/hunting/combat applications, with factory ammo. Not custom tuned load, with max weight Bergers, with a COAL that touches the lands of a 24in Bartlein barrel. In that sphere it's flat amazing how easily Grendel holds it's own, even with a carbine length barrel.
Just to provide some real world support for my assertions. Mark Larue took a bull elk at 400+ yards with a Grendel (if memory serves) 18in barrel & Barnes TSX 127 gr bullet, and he was using a Burris 1-6x scope at the time. He sells this scope as an optional addition to his 6.5 G rifles. (It's a 223/308 BDC reticle if that wasn't clear).
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - crusader18 - 05-02-2020
I'm going to suggest you add the SWFA SS 2.5-10x32 Ultralight BDC https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-2-5-10x32-ultralight-rifle-scope-w-aero-mount.html
and the SS HD 3-9X42 https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-hd-3-9x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope.html?___SID=U
I have both, the SS 3-15X42 as well. I shot the best group of my life with the 3-15(about 1/4 in.) they all have excellent glass, fine reticles available in MOA/MOA or Mil/Mil and the turret tracking is 100%.
The only scope I mentioned that over your $500 budget is the 3-15.
I'm putting the SS 2.5-10 UL on an 18" hunting rifle. SWFA makes incredible scopes for the price and made in Japan.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - crusader18 - 05-02-2020
LRRPF52 Wrote:Biggest problem with most LPVOs is that they don't have parallax adjustment for TGT shooting.
They are a compromise geared towards being well-rounded for close work, and intermediate range shooting with trade-offs that good TGT scopes don't suffer.
I'm not sure what direction to go on a $500 budget if you want a scope that won't break on a gas gun.
There are precious few scopes with quality glass and appropriate features that will hold up on an AR15, which beats them harder than magnum bolt guns due to the reciprocating mass of the BCG slamming back into the breach and barrel extension with a cascading high G impulse that 99% of scopes were never designed to handle.
NightForce NX series and Vortex PST and Razo HD are some of the only ones that are built specifically to deal with that kind of abuse.
Leupold Mark 6 and Mark 5 also, but we're way outside of $500 at those higher end Leupold.
There have been a lot of warranty-related returns on the PA lower end scopes for this reason when you actually shoot a bit.
I recommended the SWFA SS line of scopes, they're rated for .50cal and don't break the bank. For what they cost-what they deliver, they're an excellent value. Plus they have a lifetime warranty/trade in policy. I own the three models I recommended and they're all on gas guns.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - am4966 - 05-09-2020
Id look into Riton Scopes to they have 2 different LPVO one with FFP but thats outside your budget in the second one which can be had under your price in SFP 1-8x24 in black or FDE. Think you could get the optic n a mount fir $500 well good luck in your search.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - drewthebrave - 05-09-2020
I'm going to second the SWFA recommendation. They may not be sexy with illumination and tactical features, but they are durable, affordable, and have useful reticles. I have used their 1-4x, 3-9x HD, 3-15x, and fixed 6x and was impressed with the quality of each, especially for the price. For what you intend to use the rifle for, I think the 2.5-10x Ultralight, 3-9x HD, or 3-15x SS would be great options.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - Lastrites - 05-09-2020
SWFA 2.5-10x Ultralight, have one of these on my 14.5" grendel and it works well and helped keep my build under 7lbs.
Quarantine build = 13" Grendel build! But what optic? - FlashHercules - 05-12-2020
Thanks for all the advice! Sorry it's taken so long to reply, I've been researching all your suggestions, as well as looking at some others. Widening my search to include non-illuminated optics turned up some new options I hadn't considered.
What do you think of the US Optics TS-12X? It's at the top of my short list now, reviews on it are really good. Mil/Mil, locking turrets, good magnification range, Japanese glass, and a lifetime warranty. The only catch is its made in China, but it's QC'd here in the US. I especially like it's compact size, I think it'll fit nicely on this build.
Has anyone used this scope? I'd love to hear some feedback from someone running it on a short barrel Grendel.