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+--- Thread: Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? (/showthread.php?tid=20312)
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - FLshooter - 01-01-2020
Like the rest of you guys I love the 6.5 Grendel. It?s become my favorite AR and I shoot it more than any other caliber at this time. I also love bolt action rifles and I have been kicking the idea in my head about getting a bolt action rifle in 6.5 Grendel.
I own CZ varmint rifles and I love them because of their out of box accuracy and very few and inexpensive mods needed to get it the way I like it. The MTR looks very impressive.The adjustable trigger, the heavy barrel. Other than a $40 DIP Picatinny rail,it?s pretty much ready out of the box. I like that, because the last thing I would need right now is another gun project.I want something I can pick up shoot.
I also like the RAP. But that would be sort of a project. I would need a chassis or stock for starters. I can?t stand the Tupperware stock.What I love about the Ruger predator is that I can easily put a new barrel on it if I want to and it uses AR mags.
I just want to hear some pros and cons on both rifles from those of you own them.Althoug I can,i?m not in a great hurry to jump and buy a bolt action rifle.But I have been bitten by the bug,if you know what I mean.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - grayfox - 01-01-2020
I tried a howa 20" Hbbl and for the life of me, just couldn't get it to settle in for me. Did a bunch to it, the mags didn't really give me any trouble tho. So I moved on and have an RAP, the plastic stock does have some problems feeding from the AR mag, so I've got an Mdt coming... they have one chassis model that will take the AR mags, it's what they recommended that I do. Hasn't arrived yet, but soon.
Now there is an Mdt "223" mag that fits in an AI magwell, could be however that the feed lips aren't set right for the Grr case, I don't know. It's a poly mag.
The RAP (using the AR mag) in this latest iteration has a change to its bolt, a cut-out in the lower part to allow a double stack feed to work. The earlier bolts were shaped on the bottom to feed from a single stack, aka the rotary mags.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - FLshooter - 01-02-2020
grayfox Wrote:I tried a howa 20" Hbbl and for the life of me, just couldn't get it to settle in for me. Did a bunch to it, the mags didn't really give me any trouble tho. So I moved on and have an RAP, the plastic stock does have some problems feeding from the AR mag, so I've got an Mdt coming... they have one chassis model that will take the AR mags, it's what they recommended that I do. Hasn't arrived yet, but soon.
Now there is an Mdt "223" mag that fits in an AI magwell, could be however that the feed lips aren't set right for the Grr case, I don't know. It's a poly mag.
The RAP (using the AR mag) in this latest iteration has a change to its bolt, a cut-out in the lower part to allow a double stack feed to work. The earlier bolts were shaped on the bottom to feed from a single stack, aka the rotary mags.
My shooting buddy has a stock RAP in 6.5 Grendel. I’ve shot it several times and I like it. It was shooting just under MOA w/some 123 grain ELD handloads I had loaded for my AR.I’m sure would do better if I worked a load up that it liked.
I just don’t like the hollow Tupperware stock that comes w/the RAP.I was thinking about putting an MDT Oryx chassis on it. I seen them on Optics Planet for $399,liked it. I would just have find out if the oryx would accept AR mags.
When you get your RAP squared away,it would be cool if you shared some info. Chances are if I get the RAP I will probably need to get the same chassis system you got.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - grayfox - 01-02-2020
Call mdt or the oryx folks and ask. It might just have the AI magwell, so it's good to find out ahead of time.
I'll update here once I get it in hand. I have one of their lss for my 243 RAP and it's a tack driver...
I do a couple of tweaks to the RAPs before I'm satisfied it will do for me. Also had a 300 BO in the RAP - 16" ranch and same tweaks but put the Boyds at-one on it... and it was just too blocky for me. Plus I wasn't really into using the powders it called for for the 110's/125's. Shot great just not my cup of tea. But again the tweaks did the trick and they (RAPs) are great shooting, affordable, rifles.... with tupperware to be sure!!
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - grayfox - 01-02-2020
Magpul also has a stock but again, just the AI magwell...
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - Lemonaid - 01-02-2020
After getting reports of excellent accuracy from the RAP, I saw this forum thread:
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?20328-h335-with-nosler-123-gr-cc-results&highlight=lemonaid+rap
It convinced me to get one. Love it!
I'm getting my own great results, my favorite Grendel so far.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - TNBear731 - 01-02-2020
I have the RAP in the the Magpul American stock and have tried a lot of different magazines. Ruger 223 AICS magazines did not work, the magazine will not even fit in the magazine well. Old school polymer AICS magazines are close, but didn't work. The rounds wit too low and the bolt just glides over the top. The MDT 223 magazines have the same problem as the older AICS magazines. The only magazine I have that works reliably is a 5 round 308 metal AICS magazine with the 6br insert. You have to run the bolt fast, but it works.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - FLshooter - 01-02-2020
Lemonaid Wrote:After getting reports of excellent accuracy from the RAP, I saw this forum thread:I have absolutely no doubts that the RAP in 6.5 Grendel shoots accurately. I spent some time shooting one and I love it.Just hate the Hollow stock.I like a little weight to my rifles.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?20328-h335-with-nosler-123-gr-cc-results&highlight=lemonaid+rap
It convinced me to get one. Love it!
I'm getting my own great results, my favorite Grendel so far.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - drnls1 - 01-02-2020
Boyd's is making stocks for the RAP now.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - FLshooter - 01-02-2020
grayfox Wrote:Call mdt or the oryx folks and ask. It might just have the AI magwell, so it's good to find out ahead of time.I emailed MDT about the Oryx.
I'll update here once I get it in hand. I have one of their lss for my 243 RAP and it's a tack driver...
I do a couple of tweaks to the RAPs before I'm satisfied it will do for me. Also had a 300 BO in the RAP - 16" ranch and same tweaks but put the Boyds at-one on it... and it was just too blocky for me. Plus I wasn't really into using the powders it called for for the 110's/125's. Shot great just not my cup of tea. But again the tweaks did the trick and they (RAPs) are great shooting, affordable, rifles.... with tupperware to be sure!!
No,it does not allow AR mags
They said the order the same one you are getting.MDT LSS XL gen2 Ruger American short action Ar
I checked Midway and Optics Planet. They go for $499 but I?m not even sure it?s the right one.I would probably have to call before I ordered because it does not state that it uses AR mags.I don?t want to buy a pig in a Poke. If I could get the right chassis system in my hands first then I would buy a Ruger American Predator 6.5 Grendel.I refuse to shoot that thing with the factory stock. In fact that?s the reason I?ve been holding out from buying one.
Where did you order your MDT chassis from and how much?
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - grayfox - 01-03-2020
You're right to hesitate on those Midway etc parts. Now I like those guys but what I learned from MDT (I went directly to their website... they had some blem's on special < Christmas) is unless it says "Ruger American... AR style" it will me the AI magwell. That's what tripped me up when I ordered the first time. I had to get on the phone/email with their CS (who were great by the way) and they were able to take it back and send me now the correct one.
"[FONT="]LSS-XL Gen2 Chassis System-Ruger American SA AR-Right Handed-Carbine Interface-Cerakote Black[/FONT][FONT="]SKU: 104045-BLK"
Note the "AR" in the description...
So got it straight from MDT.
I originally bought a blem but they were willing to swap it out even-up for a good one so as to get me into the correct chassis.
Like I said, that is purely great.
I don't get it in hand til early next week but will report on how it does when I get the chance.
Roger also on the Boyd's, they now have an "AR" insert on the bottom of their Ruger-Predator-American's that are for the AR-style actions. Just pick the correct one from their drop-downs.
From the other Mdt's I have I wanted to give Mdt first shot for this build.[/FONT]
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - FLshooter - 01-03-2020
grayfox Wrote:You're right to hesitate on those Midway etc parts. Now I like those guys but what I learned from MDT (I went directly to their website... they had some blem's on special < Christmas) is unless it says "Ruger American... AR style" it will me the AI magwell. That's what tripped me up when I ordered the first time. I had to get on the phone/email with their CS (who were great by the way) and they were able to take it back and send me now the correct one.
"[FONT="]LSS-XL Gen2 Chassis System-Ruger American SA AR-Right Handed-Carbine Interface-Cerakote Black[/FONT][FONT="]SKU: 104045-BLK"
Note the "AR" in the description...
So got it straight from MDT.
I originally bought a blem but they were willing to swap it out even-up for a good one so as to get me into the correct chassis.
Like I said, that is purely great.
I don't get it in hand til early next week but will report on how it does when I get the chance.
Roger also on the Boyd's, they now have an "AR" insert on the bottom of their Ruger-Predator-American's that are for the AR-style actions. Just pick the correct one from their drop-downs.
From the other Mdt's I have I wanted to give Mdt first shot for this build.[/FONT]
Thank you.Now I know that it has to have AR in the description.I will try to get one.
The reason I like that chassis system is because I?m thinking it will make my RAP shooting experience similar to shooting my Ruger Precision rifles.Got a .223,6.5 CM and .308. All tack drivers that are a pleasure to shoot.I like the AR type chassis stocks on bolt action rifles.I shoot them well.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - grayfox - 01-03-2020
Their lss I have for my 243 makes me real happy shooting.
Solid. I have an MBA-3 stock on it. solid.When I'm on, eyesight and all, it can do 1/2"/100. That rifle is always on, for my 75 vmax, 100 gr and 95 gr pills.
I'm the weakest link.
Took a 112 lb doe with it this fall. 127 yds, bang-15yds-flop.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - Rosecrans1 - 01-03-2020
My RAP in 6.5 Grendel is very accurate and very consistent. It shoots Federal's factory Gold medal Berger 130gr Hybrid OTM's at a 0.25" to just under 0.5" all day. Just wish I could find the duplicate for it off my reloading bench! Used CFE223 and 8208XBR so far with most under MOA but nothing like the factory offering yet! The factory Hornaday Black ELDM's also shoot consistent MOA and under.
I loaded Gold Dots, SST's, ELDM and MK's and I'm at, under or just out of MOA from these. I love the gun. The gun was broken-in using the PIA method I always use when new. I epoxy-filled the fore-end of the factory stock to stiffen it up and made sure that the barrel was free-floating both when hot and cold. (Had to shave a little plastic around the end and right side of the fore-end to accomplish this). I added a piece of insulation foam & foil with about a half lb of weight to the rear stock, had the gun apart and solvent cleaned the parts including the rail before putting it back together and added a decent scope. I also switched to the ASC magazines because of feed issues with a stiff spring mag. After a few rounds through it, it now uses just about every mag I put in it. The stock is the weak link on these guns but I'm keeping mine in the stock it is wearing. It's still very light and it's accurate. I have a spare Predator stock that I'm going to go black with. Can't stand that green!!
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - FLshooter - 01-03-2020
Rosecrans1 Wrote:My RAP in 6.5 Grendel is very accurate and very consistent. It shoots Federal's factory Gold medal Berger 130gr Hybrid OTM's at a 0.25" to just under 0.5" all day. Just wish I could find the duplicate for it off my reloading bench! Used CFE223 and 8208XBR so far with most under MOA but nothing like the factory offering yet! The factory Hornaday Black ELDM's also shoot consistent MOA and under.Consistent 1/4 inch -1/2 inch groups @ 100yrds is what shooters dream about.I can do that with my Bartlein heavy 24 in Barrel aR 6.5 Grendel.It likes 120gn SMK and 123gn ELDM.W/27.3GN H335 powder.
I loaded Gold Dots, SST's, ELDM and MK's and I'm at, under or just out of MOA from these. I love the gun. The gun was broken-in using the PIA method I always use when new. I epoxy-filled the fore-end of the factory stock to stiffen it up and made sure that the barrel was free-floating both when hot and cold. (Had to shave a little plastic around the end and right side of the fore-end to accomplish this). I added a piece of insulation foam & foil with about a half lb of weight to the rear stock, had the gun apart and solvent cleaned the parts including the rail before putting it back together and added a decent scope. I also switched to the ASC magazines because of feed issues with a stiff spring mag. After a few rounds through it, it now uses just about every mag I put in it. The stock is the weak link on these guns but I'm keeping mine in the stock it is wearing. It's still very light and it's accurate. I have a spare Predator stock that I'm going to go black with. Can't stand that green!!
You’re getting good groups with 130 grain hybrid Berger bullets.That’s probably what you need to hand load,they are $45 a box at Midway. I’d start with H335 powder. I’ve had very good luck with that it’s been very consistent for me. But the problem that I’ve had with Berger bullets in the past is that they are very finicky with the powder amounts.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - FLshooter - 01-04-2020
I decided I’m going to go with an RAP.Grayfox set me right on the MDT chassis system I need and I ordered that. The rifle is coming from Sportsmans Guide ,they drag their feet a little with shipping,but I’ll let you know how it shoots when I get it.
The MDT chassis system sealed the deal for me.Because,I already like how the RAP shoots.Another thing I like about the RAP is that it is easy to rebarrel ,if I ever wanted to put a quality heavy barrel on it.Cost is the same as a quality AR barrel.
Have you ever tried to re-barrel a CZ 550 or 527? They don’t come pre-fit so they have to be custom fit which will run you twice as much. To me that’s a factor to consider.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - riuma - 01-04-2020
I don't own the MTR but I own the CZ American. After some adjustments it is one of my favorite rifles. It is as accurate as I can hold with 123 grain Noslers, 123 grain A-Max and especially the 120 Sierra Pro Hunter. I have hunted with it and just used it as my general lug-around gun. Marvelous, elegant rifle. ~Riuma
PS: I owned an RAP and it also was a fine shooter. I gave it to a friend.~R
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - Rosecrans1 - 01-04-2020
Don't want to hijack the thread from the OP but to answer FLShooter above...I have two boxes of the Berger 130gr hybrid bullets that I have been trying to handload to match the Federal factory ammo results with my RAP. Just no luck with CFE223 and 8208xbr. I have H335 but no load data and nothing specific to the Berger Hybrid 130gr bullets with H335. My Chrony is DOA so I hate to start a powder I don't have exact data on. 24 to 26 grains of H335 would be pretty safe to work within but I'll wait until I can see my MV's.
And it's consistent +0.5 to MOA for most everything it shoots. It's just those expensive Federal Gold Medal Berger 130gr Hybrid OTM's that shoot down to quarter inch that make me salivate. I really want to find Federal's magic foo-foo dust behind that Berger so I can roll my own.
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - FLshooter - 01-04-2020
You’re not hijacking this thread it’s on a standstill till I get my rifle anyway.
I subscribe to a reloading site and this is all I found for the Berger 120 gn 6.5 Grendel
Hope it is of some use to you
Remarks: max load
120 Berger Match BT Target Alliant RL-10X 21.0 2275
Remarks: start load
120 Berger Match BT Target Alliant RL-10X 23.6 2501
Remarks: max load
120 Berger Match BT Target Vihtavuori VV-N130 21.5 2247
Remarks: start load
120 Berger Match BT Target Vihtavuori VV-N130 23.8 2439
Remarks: max load
120 Berger Match BT Target Accurate AAC-2015 22.0 2263
Remarks: start load
120 Berger Match BT Target Accurate AAC-2015 24.6 2487
Remarks: max load
120 Berger Match BT Target Hodgdon H-322 22.5 2312
Remarks: start load
120 Berger Match BT Target Hodgdon H-322 25.0 2537
Remarks: max load
120 Berger Match BT Target IMR IMR-3031 23.0 2306
Remarks: start load
120 Berger Match BT Target IMR IMR-3031 26.0 2579
Remarks: max load
120 Berger Match BT Target Ramshot TAC 24.0 2267
Remarks: start load
120 Berger Match BT Target Ramshot TAC 27.0 2534
Remarks: max load
120 Berger Match BT Target Winchester W-748 24.5 2293
Remarks: start load
120 Berger Match BT Target Winchester W-748 27.6 2574
Remarks: max load
120 Berger Match BT Target Hodgdon BL-C(2) 25.5 2276
Remarks: start load
120 Berger Match BT Target Hodgdon BL-C(2) 28.3 2531
Remarks: max load
Who owns a CZ MTR,or an RAP? - grayfox - 01-04-2020
So I received the Mdt lss-AR style XL gen2 for the RAP this afternoon, came early - originally said for next Tuesday, so - good!
It looks good, the Mag fits nicely, a little front-rear rocking/wiggle capability but that might be normal.
BUT...
Having trouble now getting the 90 gr Tnt's to feed, granted they are a short length - 2.18 usually.
A little better with Hornady Eldm's but still having some issues. The round will strip but the nose drops after the feed ramp and hits the rear of chamber low, below the entrance hole. If I feed an Eldm really fast it can make the jump to the chamber and feed ok.
Seems to be the case for several types of AR mags, the new dura mag, some older ASC ones that feed great in my ARs, even an old 6.8 10-rounder. (I don't have any elanders).
I think, after fiddling with it all afternoon, it might not be the chassis so much as the receiver-barrel fit/distance: seems like a lot of free length-distance between the front of the receiver, then you see lots of threads, then the rear "wall" of the barrel/entrance to chamber. The bullet nose rocks down and strikes the chamber "wall" below the entrance.
Add to that the feed ramp is a single-cut ramp, yet an AR mag is obviously a double-side feed... recall an AR feed ramp setup is a double-ramp sort of design. Well the Ruger has a single cutout/feed.
So I'm not sure that snugging up the mags would address the real problem, being the unsupported nature of round feeding from mag exit as it were, to chamber entrance.
Anyone else seeing this, or ??
What if I could fashion a small ramp-like transition to squeeze down into the gap from receiver end-chamber entry, to sort of keep the round from diving down and hitting the chamber below the entry? In my ideal it would be plastic with maybe some gorilla-rubbery glue, so it could come out if necessary. Ramp would be curved and transition from the receiver feed ramp to the chamber entry. Wouldn't need to fit right up to the entrance-hole elevation but maybe stop 0.2" or so below (~1/2 of the cartridge 0.442 diameter to sort of center the bullet for chamber entrance).
Don't know, just brainstorming but I wonder if anyone else might have some thoughts on this.
OTOH, maybe that oft-touted Amend2 mag might help... but so far it's vapor-ware.