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A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - bearmn56 - 07-18-2019
Hello everyone. New to this site. Fifty + years a reloader. Recently bought a CZ 527 "Rustic" in 6.5 Grendel. With a little tuning this rifle shoots very well. Have tried many of the standard loadings...up to 120gr bullets. Most loads have been sub MOA. I have most of an 8# keg of A2015. However, no loading data is available from Western Powders. Contacted them about this. Got a rather annoying e-mail back essentially lecturing me about all of the powder name transformations that have occurred since the early days of Accurate Arms powders. The last sentence of the e-mail was an "oh by the way" saying that A2015 is too bulky to use in the Grendel. Hmmmmm.....I thought about this. I consulted a burn rate chart and found that H322 and A2015 have a very similar burn rate. So, I did some ladder tests of H322 (from the Hodgdon's reloading website). Max charge for the Grendel was 29.0 of H322 with a 100gr bullet. I was able to achieve this top load with no problems at all. My chronoed average velocity, at this max load, was right at 2800fps from my 24" barrel. Very nice...about 85-90fps above the Hodgdon's listed velocity. Next, I did a ladder test with A2015 starting at 26.0gr (in .5 gr increments) with the 100gr ELD match bullet. I went all the way up to 29.0 grains with no problems. Extraction was effortless, primers looked good etc. My average velocity at the 29.0gr charge was 2810fps. So, I am in business with A2015. This powder fills the case (Starline) to the same level as H322. The load is slightly compressed. This is a great powder. Have used it in 222 and 223 for many years. Not nearly as temperature sensitive as as the ball powders. (I live in Montana and winter temps can be sub-zero and summer temps shooting prairie dogs can be near 100 degrees). SOME WORDS OF CAUTION. I have some Grendel cases formed from Winchester and IMI 7.62x39. The internal capacity of these formed cases is significantly less than the Starline cases. These top 29.0gr loads using H322 and A2015 are much too hot in the formed cases. So, if you have cases other than Starline, please start very conservatively with your reloading. I don't have any cases by Lapua or Hornady at this time, so I can't speak to these. William Smith, Montana Territory
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - VASCAR2 - 07-18-2019
Welcome to the forum bearmn56!
I thought I'd seen load data on Accurate 2015 and I found it on Sierra’s latest 6.5 Grendel Data which I got online a couple years ago. As you mentioned I haven’t seen any data from Western powders.
Sierra data for 85 grain Varmint with A-2015, minimum 26.4, max 28.8 velocity app 2800 FPS.
100 grain Sierra varmint min. 24.7 max 27.5 app 2650 FPS
107 grain SMK/TMK min. 24.1 max 27.4 app 2600 FPS
120 grain SMK/PH. min 23.5 max 25.8 app 2400 FPS
123 grain SMK. min 22.5 max 24.7 app 2300 FPS
Sierra used a 24” barrel in a universal receiver with Winchester small rifle primers. I have a Cz 527 American in 6.5 Grendel but haven’t had time to shoot it much. I think your results are safe in the Cz bolt action but probably a little high for an AR-15. Forum members have observed the primer pockets loosen quickly when reaching or exceeding max loads with the 6.5 Grendel.
Thanks for posting, good see another Cz user on the forum.
Link to Sierra data
https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2017/11/16/sierra-bullets-6-5-grendel-load-data/
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - bearmn56 - 07-18-2019
Vascar2....thanks for the welcome. Just for giggles, I shot the top A2015 loading (29.0gr) 5 times in one cartridge case. Sizing effort is good (Lee dies), virtually no case growth and primer pockets as tight as when I started. So, time and shooting will tell the tale....BTW..one trick that I have used when getting up near what appears to be a max charge is to let the case cool and then re-insert in the chamber and close the bolt. Ease of closing and bolt lift and extraction of the fired case suggests that the case has not expanded too much and proper obturation and release has occurred.
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - tarrack - 07-18-2019
I too have purchased a rustic only used cfe 33.0 grains with the nosler cc bullet. They are mostly in the bull at 100 but not great groups to speak of. The next go around will be with h335. I really like the gun but since its new i need to shoot a couple hundred rnds to break it in. The guns bolt just isnt smooth yet a bit sticky.
gary
sorry was using the 100 grain nosler cc
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - VASCAR2 - 07-18-2019
Yes that is a good idea on how to test a fired case. The chamber is tight on my Cz 527 as some reloads fired in my AR-15 will not chamber in my Cz 527 6.5 Grendel. Seems like your well versed in reloading and are using good procedures in developing a load. It seems many companies are releasing ammo with lower velocity and more conservative reloading data. Whether this is because of better testing equipment or concerns for liability I can’t say. I wish more companies would post the actual pressures in their recommended charges. Western Powders is one of the few that do.
The main reason I posted the Sierra data was to inform the members of A-2015 data and to provide information in the event someone was going to use A-2015 in a semi auto AR-15.
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - tarrack - 07-18-2019
my howa loads will not chamber in my cz go figure..
gary
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - jbmarshtx - 07-19-2019
tarrack Wrote:my howa loads will not chamber in my cz go figure..
gary
I haven't tested, but the gunsmith that chambered my remington 700 said that the 2 cased I'd fired from my howa just above the case head were too wide for it to chamber. The Howa might be chambered a little bigger. I"m going to keep the brass separate.
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - bearmn56 - 07-19-2019
jbmarshtx Wrote:I haven't tested, but the gunsmith that chambered my remington 700 said that the 2 cased I'd fired from my howa just above the case head were too wide for it to chamber. The Howa might be chambered a little bigger. I"m going to keep the brass separate.I like the Lee dies that I bought because they size the case nearly to the base extractor groove to minimum dimensions. This is probably to size to a minimum dimension so that the sized cases will chamber in the AR platform and extract upon firing reliably. Bill
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - bearmn56 - 07-19-2019
tarrack Wrote:my howa loads will not chamber in my cz go figure..
gary
You might try Lee dies. They size my cases all the way to nearly the extractor groove to minimum dimensions. Bill
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - bearmn56 - 07-19-2019
tarrack Wrote:I too have purchased a rustic only used cfe 33.0 grains with the nosler cc bullet. They are mostly in the bull at 100 but not great groups to speak of. The next go around will be with h335. I really like the gun but since its new i need to shoot a couple hundred rnds to break it in. The guns bolt just isnt smooth yet a bit stickygary
sorry was using the 100 grain nosler cc
My CZ rustic stock was marked CNC and had plenty of extra dimension around the recoil lug area. I could actually move the action left and right by pressing to the left or right on the barrel. I used a bit of Brownells bedding around the locking lug and around the cylindrical section of the barrel next to the receiver. I also bedded the rear tang area. This halved the size of my groups. Next, I put a paper shim under the barrel at the end of the fore end to put some upward pressure on the barrel. This made the rifle shoot rather consistently under an inch with 90-120gr bullets. I too like H335. I bought some surplus WC844 (8#) which is essentially the same as H335. It shoots very well. I also, now that I have developed a safe max load, plan on using my 8# jug of A2015. Bill Mt Territory
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - Fannietob - 07-24-2019
I built an 18" Grendel two years ago and love it. Currently using the 123gr SST Hornady ammo with excellent performance. 3 deer credited to this rifle. Could not be more pleased.
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A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - bearmn56 - 08-03-2019
Followup on A2015. I wanted to try some cast bullets in my CZ 527 6.5 Grendel. Didn't want to use any of the heavy cast bullets...ie 140gr and above. So, I checked out cast bullet molds. The only molds available in the 100-125gr range were from NOE. I found that they had two, two cavity bullet molds left from a production run. The mold casts a 112gr gas checked bullet. I ordered one of these molds. Shipping was fast and I received the mold in about 5 days. I opened the package...WHAT A BEAUTIFUL MOLD! Almost too beautiful to cast with
. It came with 3 different bullet nose inserts. A deep hollow point, a shallower hollow point and a flat nose. I prepped the mold and proceeded to cast some deep hollow points. I cast about 100 good ones. I then loaded them up using 8.0gr of Unique. Accuracy was only so, so. As in 1"+ at 25 yards. My goad was to get a 2000fps hunting load. A couple of other tries with other powders still did not produce hunting accuracy at 100 yds. I next changed the nose insert to a flat nose. Soon had 100 of these puppies ready to load. I decided to try A2015 behind these bullets. Accurate Arms in their older loading manual noted that A2015 gave very consistent pressures and velocities in some of the older black powder cartridges using cast bullets even at very low pressures. I tried 17.0- 21.0 grains of A2015 behind the 114gr FN GC 6.5 bullets sized .266". Accuracy was quite acceptable with the 21.0 grain loading producing 2120fps and 1/2" groups at 25yards. Up to the 100 yd range on Mac Donald Pass west of Helena, MT. I shot 3 groups with the 21.0 grain load. Only one group was over 2". The 10 shot group is right at 2" and the center group about 2.25 inches. Definitely hunting accuracy. Will now have to do some ladder work to find the "sweet" spot. Incidentally, this mold is one of Von Gruf's designs. It is a bore rider on the forward section with plenty of grease in the aft section grooves. I have used this design in the past and it has consistently produced good accuracy in other calibers. Below are some pics. Bill [ATTACH=CONFIG]14533[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]14534[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]14535[/ATTACH]
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - VASCAR2 - 08-03-2019
Great looking bullets, thanks for posting!
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - bearmn56 - 05-04-2020
Update....long Montana winter finally over. Wanted to do some followup cast bullet loading. Too cold all winter to cast any from my NOE 112gr mold. Went on gunbroker and found some 120gr RNGC (aluminum GC) poly coated bullets sized to .266" very reasonably priced ($12.50/100 + shipping). I ordered 300. Got them quickly. Made up some loads using data that I got with the Lee dies for the Grendel. Because I have so much AA2015 and it is a kissing cousin to H322, I used the Lee H322 loading data for the 120gr jacketed bullet as a guide for using AA2015. I have used this powder before with the 112gr cast bullets. I settled on 22.0 gr of AA2015 behind the 120gr cast, poly coated bullet. The chrony said that these loads had a speed of 2200fps....extreme spread less than 50fps. I fired two three shot groups at 50yds. Both were under one inch. Interestingly, there was no leading with the poly coated bullets. Also, I am using necked down/fire formed 7.62x39 brass for my cast bullet loads. The smaller case capacity is a + for loading cast bullets. Need to explore this bullet more. As a reminder, my rifle is a "Rustic" American CZ527, 24" bbl, 1-8 twist. Will post more later. Bill, Montana Territory
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - Lemonaid - 05-04-2020
Thanks for the post bearman56, I'm very interested in cast bullets for my RAP. I'm in the process of milling down a lee 160 soup can mold (sounds like something left too long in the fridge)
. I'll mill first to around 140 grains. My thinking is if you are keeping velocity in the 1800 to 2200 fps range, might as well have as much bullet weight (energy) as possible. If it stinks I'll then mill it to 120 grains.I expect as good accuracy as I get in .308 cast bullets (1 moa or less) so if the Lee mold won't get me there, next stop is NOE.
A2015 in the 6.5 Grendel - Ardeculd - 05-08-2020
bearmn56 Wrote:Update....long Montana winter finally over. Wanted to do some followup cast bullet loading. Too cold all winter to cast any from my NOE 112gr mold. Went on gunbroker and found some 120gr RNGC (aluminum GC) poly coated bullets sized to .266" very reasonably priced ($12.50/100 + shipping). I ordered 300. Got them quickly. Made up some loads using data that I got with the Lee dies for the Grendel. Because I have so much AA2015 and it is a kissing cousin to H322, I used the Lee H322 loading data for the 120gr jacketed bullet as a guide for using AA2015 recipes. I have used this powder before with the 112gr cast bullets. I settled on 22.0 gr of AA2015 behind the 120gr cast, poly coated bullet. The chrony said that these loads had a speed of 2200fps....extreme spread less than 50fps. I fired two three shot groups at 50yds. Both were under one inch. Interestingly, there was no leading with the poly coated bullets. Also, I am using necked down/fire formed 7.62x39 brass for my cast bullet loads. The smaller case capacity is a + for loading cast bullets. Need to explore this bullet more. As a reminder, my rifle is a "Rustic" American CZ527, 24" bbl, 1-8 twist. Will post more later. Bill, Montana Territory
huge thanks for the updating post. I'm a new guy around here and i really appreciate when someone updates because it greatly helps me understand it all easier. as a newbie who's only been a chef, is hard for me to understand it all easy. appreciating a lot. also, was wondering if i could ask you some questions? thanks