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+--- Thread: Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report (/showthread.php?tid=19035)
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - bachekermooni - 05-25-2019
Went to the range yesterday morning with the equipment in the previous post in PTG reamer thread. Four loads were pre-made - the rest made at the range.
The goal was to get velocities close to 3000 FPS and possibly look at accurate loads. New Lapua brass; Hornady 90 gn ELD-X (except as noted) bullet seated 20 thou from the lands (COL = 2.1895"). I mounted the T36 for max accuracy of group development. Starting ambient 62F, ending 71F. Clean to the bare metal barrel to start with.
Listed results are in the order they were fired through out the day.
Pre-loaded:
Primer - Powder
Grains - Velocity (ies) - Notes
400 - TAC
27.0 - 2660, 2664 - Used for fouling
28.0 - 2783 - Starting load with TAC
400 - CFE
29.0 - 2698 - Starting load with CFE
Loaded at the range:
450 - TAC
28.2 - 2810
28.5 - 2857
29.0 - 2895
29.3 - 2938
29.7 - 2940
30.0 - 2994 (Eureka), 3020, 2963, 2959, 3003, 3002
After i reached approx 3000 with this load, I loaded three which were touching. Then I loaded two, first 1 inch left, second 1 inch left and down!?
Cleaned the rifle. Fired a fouler with Hornady 87 gn BTHP, 30 gn TAC, 400 (sharp edges on the primer where hit by firing pin) - no speed measured, switched to CFE
450 - CFE
30.0 - 2800
30.4 - 2845
30.8 - 3382 - What the heck!? 8-0 need to go down to 30.4
30.4 - 2930, 2867 - Very inconsistent results - forget CFE for now
Back to TAC
450 - TAC
30.0 - 3149, 3153, 3149 - What the heck 120+ over the last 30.0 load, very consistent vel though
First two were touching, third 0.75" to the left (think I pulled it).
As a parting shot I fired the other 87 gn with 30.0 gn of TAC and 400, 3035 fps - sharp primer edge where hit by firing pin.
Conclusion: 1. Definitely use 450 primers. 2. Forget CFE for now. 3. Test more with TAC to determine cause of speed change (temp? only 7-8F though). 4. Test with Fed Match Primers. 5. Start playing with 87 BTHP.
Have an awesome weekend.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - soloelcap - 05-26-2019
Great range report.
Imagine that, TAC works for the 6mm AR.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - bachekermooni - 05-27-2019
After more research, i might want to shoot the Berger 87 or 95 gn hunting bullets instead of Hornady 90 ELD-X.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - LtDan - 05-29-2019
What is the overall length of the bullets you are shooting?
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - grayfox - 05-29-2019
From my experience CFE likes to be close to max or max load. Farther away from max, it's inconsistent. Not sure however how that might play out for a 6 Grr rifle.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - bachekermooni - 05-30-2019
LtDan Wrote:What is the overall length of the bullets you are shooting?
For the 90 ELD-X, 2.1895" +/- 0.001" (0.020" from the lands). The LE Wilson Micrometer seater and Harrell arbor press are amazingly accurate when seating bullets - especially at the range in the back of my Yukon.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - bachekermooni - 05-30-2019
grayfox Wrote:From my experience CFE likes to be close to max or max load. Farther away from max, it's inconsistent. Not sure however how that might play out for a 6 Grr rifle.
I need to play more with that powder. People in 24hourcampfire are shooting 32.2 - 32.4 gn of it - which with 90 ELD-X is heavily compressed - if compressible that much.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - bachekermooni - 06-02-2019
I am very impressed with and thankful to the Berger folks. I spoke to them on Tue asking about their 6 mm hunting bullets. The tech recommended 87 VLD or 95 classic hunter. He was kind enough to send me samples. They arrived yesterday - wow. Talk about service and speed. I measured both in my chamber. 87 VLD COL is 2.258" and 95 CH COL is 2.193" to lands. Hopefully I will get a chance to test the 87 next week. Stand by.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - Overwatcher - 06-04-2019
Have you tried 8208 XBR yet? The 87 VLD is showing promise with my .243 LBC.I have only ran 8208.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - bachekermooni - 06-06-2019
Overwatcher Wrote:Have you tried 8208 XBR yet? The 87 VLD is showing promise with my .243 LBC.I have only ran 8208.
No. There are so many powders I am willing to keep on the shelf. I will try CFE and TAC with 87 VLDs hopefully soon.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - 454bore - 06-06-2019
CFE shot good for me at 31.5 grains under 95 to 108 grain bullets.
I use rem 7 1/2 primers with it and 2000-mr.
I like 2000-mr more than CFE.
I got half inch groups yesterday using nosler 95 ballistic tips.
They will work good for deer out to 350 yards.
Past that the 108elds start to surpass them.
They carry a lot more energy from there on.
I seat them 10 thou off the lands.
I use H-4895 during the winter.
It's very accurate but slower than 2000-mr and CFE.
2000-mr burns cooler than anything I've tried.
You can pick up the brass right after firing and notice it's not near as hot.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - 454bore - 06-06-2019
The 95 grain Berger should shoot well with 31.5 grains CFE 10 thou off the lands.
My barrel shoots any 95 to 108 grain bullet under 3/4 moa with 31.5 grains 2000-MR also.
It burns cool enough to pick up the brass right after firing and not get burned.
The same load shoots half inch with 95 ballistic tips 10 thou off the lands.
I use rem 7 1/2 primers.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - bachekermooni - 06-06-2019
454bore Wrote:The 95 grain Berger should shoot well with 31.5 grains CFE 10 thou off the lands.
My barrel shoots any 95 to 108 grain bullet under 3/4 moa with 31.5 grains 2000-MR also.
It burns cool enough to pick up the brass right after firing and not get burned.
The same load shoots half inch with 95 ballistic tips 10 thou off the lands.
I use rem 7 1/2 primers.
Doesn't the 31.5 grains of CFE get quite compressed with the aforementioned bullets?
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - 454bore - 06-06-2019
I settle the powder by holding the brass against my vibratory tumbler with my index finger over the case mouth or tap the brass while it's up to the powder measure spout with a metal rod if I want to go faster.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - bachekermooni - 06-11-2019
Headed to the range on Friday to play some more. With Berger 87 (only have 5 bullets) and more fun with Hornady 90 ELD-X and 87 BTHP.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - bachekermooni - 06-17-2019
454bore Wrote:I settle the powder by holding the brass against my vibratory tumbler with my index finger over the case mouth or tap the brass while it's up to the powder measure spout with a metal rod if I want to go faster.
I tried the tapping. Worked great. Going to the range Mon morning. Got pulled into a conf call Friday :-(
Edit - BTW, the Sierra 90 TGK (12 of them - many thanks) arrived Sat (good thing I got busy Fri). Loaded some of those for testing tomorrow as well.
Howa 1500 Mini w/ PacNor 6 mm G Range Report - bachekermooni - 06-18-2019
I will do the write up tonight. For now, the groups - Sorry.
Edit:
Temp was low to mid 60's. I had not cleaned the rifle from last session. As always, I sent a clean, dry, plastic brush (bore tech) down the bore, twice before starting to shoot.
All loads are with CCi 450 and new Lapua brass.
First group was 87 BTHP on top of 30 Gn of TAC. Great group even though the ES was over 50 fps. Then I shot the 90 TGK on top of 30 Gn of TAC. Disappointing despite an 8 fps ES. So I loaded three more and set them 0.04" from the lands (previous ones 0.02" from lands). Slight improvement, but still a no go. This one had an ES of 21.
OK. Plan B. Switched to CFE. Did a 0.2 Gn load increase with the sample TGKs I had left. Awesome results. The 90 TGK barely gets into the case powder area, despite its length. According to Sierra tech team it has a 0.214" bearing surface - wow. It sure does not look like it.
Out of TGK, I switched to CFE with ELD-X - loaded with 31 Gn of CFE. Shot a decent group with great ES. But the last case required a bit more force to seat the bullet and when fired, need a tad more force to open the bolt and a little shiny brow on the case head. Odd. It had the exact same speed of the second shot - 3011 fps.
ELD-X is not as long as the TGK and it has a chubbier ogive. So it takes a lot more of the powder space in the case. Actually the ELD-X COL, touching lands, is almost 0.050" shorter than TGK.
In the end, 90 ELD-X remains a work in progress. The 87 BTHP with 30 Gn of TAC is a viable load that can be used all the way up to and including deer. I ordered a box of TGKs and will finish its load development after the July 4th holiday. If it performers as advertised, and with its 0.490 BC, I should get close to 1000 Ft.Lb of energy and over 2100 FPS at 500 yards. Impressive.